Joyfully Growing in Grace and Torah

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:45 pm 
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PAUL'S writings in the NT - Bible?

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Catherine

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Rabbi Paul had some wonderful things to say regarding the renewed covenant as well as good solid advice for dropping the ways of the world, and turning back to Yahovah. I love Rabbi Paul.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Thank you for your answer.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:04 pm 
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You're welcome! What do YOU believe?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:34 am 
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I do not believe in PAUL and his writings. I used to believe some of what he said even though I questioned many things in the NT as a traditional 'Christian' and raised in an old fashioned Lutheran religion not this new STUFF in so many modern churches.

NO offense to you or anyone else.

I never believed in the Trinity the WAY so many people did or still DO believe it even though you can have a zillion and one explanations for it in traditional churches. It is a FALSE teaching in my opinion no matter how a person explains IT.

I do not believe in a LOT of things that traditional religions (Modern ones too!) teach and preach. That goes for all religions not just 'Christian' ones.

You asked me so I answered you. I do not mean this in an argumentative way.

I believe in God-Creator.

I believe in the Ten Commandments and in the Two Greatest Commandments.

Love God, honor God and follow God.

Do onto others as you would have them do onto you aka The Golden Rule.

I am in not any specific religion at this time. I left the 'church' over 30 years ago. I already wrote that somewhere on here and elsewhere.

Since I have been studying and reading more, as I always did in the past when it came to religious matters, I have come to some conclusions in some matters. Just when I thought that I understood something - something else contradicted something else in the OT/NT, Tanach, etc.

God is God - period. God is God Eternal and God does not change who He is in my opinion. God never did change on who HE was and IS in my opinion.

Blessings,

Catherine

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:17 am 
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Cate wrote:
PAUL'S writings in the NT - Bible?

Thank you.

Catherine


Absolutely. The letters of Rav Sha'ul are indispensable in knowing the ultimate goal of Yah's plan. But they are also extremely complicated and very poorly understood by most.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:49 pm 
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nabi wrote:
Cate wrote:
PAUL'S writings in the NT - Bible?

Thank you.

Catherine


Absolutely. The letters of Rav Sha'ul are indispensable in knowing the ultimate goal of Yah's plan. But they are also extremely complicated and very poorly understood by most.


Thank you for your answer too.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Thank-you Cate for answering my question. I appreciate it a bunch!

To me, there's quite a difference between what God said and meant (in the bible) and how religions have decided what it all means. I've had to "wash myself'' of quite a lot and make a sincere effort to try to learn and understand G-D's POV, because that is the one I want to embrace. It's a process, for sure.

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God is God - period. God is God Eternal and God does not change who He is


Hummm...that reminds me of the Shema :rofl: :angelwings:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Yep. I believe in Paul's writings. Some take his words completely out of context--heck, they do the same with Yahshua (Jesus)--but the reality is, there is really only one true reading of the text, and it's the clearest and simplest one. Not a single place does Paul ever abolish or do away with the Torah, nowhere does he attempt to nullify Law, neither are the Commandments "philosophy and vain deceit" as some have remarkably claimed. I hope and pray, it is not to their own destruction:

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Judith wrote:
Thank-you Cate for answering my question. I appreciate it a bunch!

To me, there's quite a difference between what God said and meant (in the bible) and how religions have decided what it all means. I've had to "wash myself'' of quite a lot and make a sincere effort to try to learn and understand G-D's POV, because that is the one I want to embrace. It's a process, for sure.

Quote:
God is God - period. God is God Eternal and God does not change who He is


Hummm...that reminds me of the Shema :rofl: :angelwings:



I know what you mean there too, lady. Been there - done that.

Thank you.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Yep. I believe in Paul's writings. Some take his words completely out of context--heck, they do the same with Yahshua (Jesus)--but the reality is, there is really only one true reading of the text, and it's the clearest and simplest one. Not a single place does Paul ever abolish or do away with the Torah, nowhere does he attempt to nullify Law, neither are the Commandments "philosophy and vain deceit" as some have remarkably claimed. I hope and pray, it is not to their own destruction:

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.



Thanks to you too.

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Cate wrote:
PAUL'S writings in the NT - Bible?

Thank you.

Catherine


Absolutely!! I believe if you'd read his writings/teaching in the Aramaic you would have a much better understanding of what he was trying to get across.

Just a couple of examples:

KJV Rom. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

AENT Rom. 7:6 Now we can really serve Elohim, not in the *old way by obeying the letter of Torah, but in the new way, by the Spirit.

*old way. The "old way" was the Pharisees tradition of obeying the "letter of the Torah" instead of the intent and "heart of Torah." See Matt. 23:23 [you should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former].

And here:

Rom. 10:4 Mashiyach [Messiah] is the end (Gr. telos) of the Torah, so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Now while 'telos' can mean "end" the word is more flexible in meaning and can also mean "goal" as in our English phrase, "The ends do not justify the means."

Why do I say Paul didn't mean the Torah had ended? He said in Rom. 7:12 that Torah was "perfect, righteous, and good" so why would he turn around and say it was terminated?

No, instead he taught in Gal. 3 that Torah is our tutor that brings us to Messiah and when we accept Messiah, He then becomes the 'goal' of Torah. [This is the underlying idea behind John calling Him The Word].

It's as Peter stated; Paul's teachings are hard to understand and often twisted to mean the very opposite of what he believed/taught.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Yup. Paul rocks...very, VERY confusing for the unlearned/unstable...those blinded/deluded with the deceit of lawlessness...

2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. Footnote: 1See 1 Cor. 11:6.
2Pe 3:17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,

We see that delusion constantly on 'other' forums.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:39 pm 
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AB and Temu,

Thank you for your answers too.

Take care!

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:28 am 
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nabi wrote:
Cate wrote:
PAUL'S writings in the NT - Bible?

Thank you.

Catherine


Absolutely. The letters of Rav Sha'ul are indispensable in knowing the ultimate goal of Yah's plan. But they are also extremely complicated and very poorly understood by most.

I think YHVH's words are indispensable in knowing YHVH's plan. The reason why we have oodles of xtian interpretations all very different from each other is because people aren't seeking what YHVH Himself said and people are unknowingly contradicting YHVH.


Last edited by Eishet Chayil on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:29 am 
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Judith wrote:
Thank-you Cate for answering my question. I appreciate it a bunch!

To me, there's quite a difference between what God said and meant (in the bible) and how religions have decided what it all means. I've had to "wash myself'' of quite a lot and make a sincere effort to try to learn and understand G-D's POV, because that is the one I want to embrace. It's a process, for sure.

Quote:
God is God - period. God is God Eternal and God does not change who He is


Hummm...that reminds me of the Shema :rofl: :angelwings:
agreed


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Hello,

Thank you for all of your answers.

If you want to close this thread - no problem.

I just do not believe the same way that you do.

I did not know how the HRM types of religion believed in this matter when it came to PAUL so now I know. So I asked the question - I got the answers.

You DO believe that Paul was chosen by God and what he wrote in the NT was true. I do not.

Thanks again.

Sincerely,

Catherine

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:47 pm 
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I am fine with Paul.

I do not mind those that reject him, though. What matters is the Messiah. Everything else is just periphery.


Just my opinion ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:01 am 
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I feel Paul's writings were inspired by God. I feel his writings were misunderstood.

If an dishonest person can find a verse (out of context) to support their lawlessness, they jump on it. There are many of Paul's writings that taken out of context can show the opposite of what was really meant. That is my feeling on this.

Don't ever feel bad about having different Biblical views than others. It is what got me out of the RCC and MS church.

We learn and grow. Sometimes making some mistakes along the way; God knows our true heart though. He knows if we are trying to learn and grow or if we just want justifications for lawlessness.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:25 am 
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Thank you.

Cate

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