Joyfully Growing in Grace and Torah

Growing in Him
It is currently Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:35 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
The Bible tells us that there will be a resurrection of the saints at the beginning of the Millennium, which is called the "first resurrection" (1 The. 4:16; Rev. 20:5-6) or the "better resurrection" (Heb. 11:35). At this resurrection, believers will be raised from the dead and/or changed from flesh to spirit (1 Cor. 15:50-54; Phi. 3:21).

Scripture also tells us that there will be a resurrection of the "just and the unjust" (Acts 24:15) which will lead to either life or condemnation for those who are resurrected (John 5:28-29; Dan. 12:2). I know WHEN I believe this resurrection occurs, but I'd like to get an idea what everyone else thinks about the timing of this second resurrection.

When do you think the resurrection of the "just and unjust" occurs in the chronology of God's plan, and why?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
duckman1968 wrote:
Those who expressed love for brother and who did not have the law will be resurrected to life, while those who did or didn’t have the law and didn’t have love for brother (what the law represented in it’s entirety) will be resurrected to condemnation when judgments are revealed.


I completely agree with this statement. In your view of the chronology of God's plan, WHEN is this going to happen?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:14 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:43 pm
Posts: 2177
I believe the Resurrection happens when he appears; it is also a general judgement upon his own house. The sheep and the goats will be separated based upon the amount of gold olive oil flowing in and through them, the nature of YHWH, but the hypocrite will be exiled from his brilliant presence into outer darkness. The dragon will be bound and placed in the bottomless pit, where the fallen watchers and the most wicked men reside. Messiah will teach us how to live the Kingdom life; we will be priests and kings in various degrees. We will rebuild the world for a thousand years; we will make it the Eden once again. At the end, the dragon be released to deceive the nations. Surprisingly, he will have with him a sea of enemies to war against us all, but they will be vaporized into the lake of fire. This moment is also the second death where the vilest and most wicked men are judged and discarded. The Kingdom will endure eternally as a River of Life, shimmering with every precious jewel...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 1229
Interesting. You guys are deep thinkers.

_________________
Teshuvaami.com Forums


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:20 pm
Posts: 2476
Quote:
I'm certainly a child in diapers as compared to those that I fellowship with, so I can only point to the second resurrection being or following the millennial reign as for reasons stated above.


Compared to you Nabi, I'm still in the womb lol! You all are teaching me bunches. Great post!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
Judith wrote:
Compared to you Nabi, I'm still in the womb lol! You all are teaching me bunches. Great post!


Thanks for the kind words, Judith. I hope that I occasionally bring some small benefit to those who read this forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
John speaks about the resurrection of the saints when he refers to the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:

Quote:
REVELATION 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the FIRST RESURRECTION. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. (NIV)

This passage of Scripture has caused a multitude of problems in understanding the chronology of end-time biblical prophecy. It seems to say that there will be only ONE resurrection at the beginning of the Millennium, which will involve just the saints. However, this view is hard to square with the rest of the Scriptures, which show that there will be a resurrection of the "just and the unjust" dead during the Messiah's Millennial reign.

So how are we to properly understand John's statement here?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
duckman1968 wrote:
Go on....


OK, I will. :D

Two passages of Scripture reveal to us that Messiah will come on the clouds and raise the dead saints at the sounding of the trumpet of God (Matt. 24: 30-31; 1 The. 4:15-17). When the trumpet sounds, there will be a resurrection of the righteous dead. As Paul tells us in his first letter to the Corinthians, the dead saints who are raised, as well as those saints still living, will be CHANGED at the last trumpet from flesh to spirit:

Quote:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be CHANGED -
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (NKJV)

Paul clearly says here that the saints, both the dead and the living, will be changed from corruptible flesh to an incorruptible/immortal body at the last (i.e., 7th) trumpet (Rev. 11:15-18). This change, which is the focus of Paul's discourse throughout the entire chapter, will be necessary for the saints to inherit their reward in the Millennial kingdom. In his letter to the Philippian assembly, Paul also speaks of this change of our bodies in the resurrection (Phi. 3:21).

In Paul's earlier comments in 1 Corinthians 15, we find that the apostle spends considerable time describing the difference between our current physical bodies and the spiritual bodies we will have when we are resurrected (1 Cor. 15:35-49). Paul makes the point that not all the spiritual bodies of those dwelling in the kingdom of God will be equal. Some will be more glorious than others. Different physical creatures have different types of flesh (e.g., man, animals, fish, birds). Likewise, those changed to spirit beings will have different levels of glory, just as the sun, the moon, the major stars, and the minor stars all produce different amounts of light in the sky.

Although Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians 15 imply that everyone will ultimately be changed from flesh to spirit (1 Cor. 15:21-22), the context of the chapter primarily deals with the resurrection of the saints at Messiah's coming. John speaks from this same frame of reference in Revelation 20 when he refers to the "first resurrection."

It's clear from other prophecies that most will NOT be raised from the dead and changed to spirit at the "first resurrection." In fact, the number changed then will be relatively small compared to all those who have died since creation. The type of resurrection Yeshua experienced (from flesh to spirit) won't occur again until the "first resurrection" of the saints (Rev. 20:4-6), which Paul tells us takes place at the "last trumpet" (1 Cor. 15:50-53).

In the chronological sequence of resurrections to spirit, Paul tells us that the end of the Millennial kingdom will come before anyone else is raised and changed from flesh to spirit (1 Cor. 15:24). John's parenthetical statement in Revelation 20:5 that the rest of the dead won't "live" (with the context implying "as spirit beings") until the 1,000-year reign of Messiah has ended is a confirmation of Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 15:24.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
duckman1968 wrote:
Well nabi it appears that I'm with you 100% on this..

Sabbath blessings to you..


Shabbat shalom duckman! Glad we're on the same page regarding this part. Now to where we may differ...

duckman1968 wrote:
The great White Throne Judgment at the time of the second resurrection, as represented by the Last Great Day, is when the Holy Spirit is given to all physically resurrected human beings who have not previously been born-from-above, just as the latter crops or the wheat received the latter rain.

...I can only point to the second resurrection being or following the millennial reign as for reasons stated above.


I agree that the next (i.e., "second") resurrection to spirit comes at the time of the Great White Throne Judgment. However, I believe that the resurrection of the "just and the unjust" spoken of by Yeshua, Daniel, and Paul takes place during the 1,000-year kingdom of Messiah (called "the Day of YHVH," "the Day of Judgment," "the Judgment," "the Last Day," "the Great Day," "the Kingdom of God," and "the Kingdom of Heaven."). This is a resurrection back to MORTAL existence, not to spirit. And the judge during this "Day of Judgment" is Messiah Yeshua, not YHVH the Father (who is shown presiding over the Great White Throne judgment in Rev. 20:11-15).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
duckman1968 wrote:
nabi it might be to where I'm not understanding the OP.

First you state that there is a "first" resurrection, then you state that there is another resurrection, of the "just and unjust", stating that the "first" resurrection is at the beginning of the Millennial reign, then implying that you believe you know when this "other" resurrection is.

I was assuming for this to mean [as in other] a second resurrection.

I went to explain regarding this "second" resurrection.

But as far as for the resurrection of the "just and the unjust", the early rains that rained upon the barley crop rained upon the just and the unjust, which is before the great White Throne judgment.

I might be reading the op wrong, but it was my understanding that you were implying the resurrection of the just and unjust as the second resurrection.


I guess it depends on how you label the resurrections. Here is my understanding of the chronology of the resurrections:

1 - Messiah's resurrection - the very first resurrection of a human from flesh to spirit (30 CE)
2 - The First Resurrection - the resurrection/change of the saints from flesh to spirit (at the sounding of the 7th trumpet which begins the Millennium)
3 - The Resurrection of the Just & Unjust - the resurrection of all the remaining dead back to MORTAL life (sometime toward the beginning of the Millennium)
4 - The "second resurrection" (to spirit) - the raising of all the dead at the Great White Throne Judgment (after the Millennium)

Hopefully that's a clearer statement of what I see the Bible teaching on resurrection...



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:09 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:43 pm
Posts: 2177
Hoping ang praying for you, duckman.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 242
May Yah be with you in the situation that has arisen with your family, duckman. Shalom...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Forum hosting by ProphpBB | Software by phpBB | Report Abuse | Privacy