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 Post subject: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:47 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:53 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:07 am 
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Rico brings it home. Eric Bissell can show Yeshua backwards and forwards in the Aleph-Tau...so much so, that Nehemia Gordon won't listen to him...calls him (with disrespect) "alphabet boy". He lost Nehemia in 10 minutes.

But you are correct...churchianity has built for themselves another 'jesus'...and NOT the true Messiah.

I recorded another session with Eric yesterday, I'll burn and ready them for sending out to anyone interested. Mind blowing. I'm not exaggerating.

By the end of the study, we all had lumps in our throats; tears welling up.

How we/millennia, have broken the heart of our Father...trampled His covenant...despised His Words.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:10 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:25 am 
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If we cannot say Jesus came in the flesh, then it isn't of the Holy Spirit.

He came in the flesh, fully capable of sinning and tempted as any man. He overcame though. He didn't sin. I feel that if He was not part of Mary's egg; he would not have truly come in the flesh. He would be no more than God in the Spirit; not able to be tempted, thus, did not overcome sin.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:09 am 
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That is my understanding as well, VW.


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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:25 am 
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Oh my goodness, I spent a LONG time posting a response and lost the entire thing AGAIN.

Later,

Catherine

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:48 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:18 am 
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I watched parts 3 and 4 yesterday. Amazing.



Catherine, please try again, I am very interested in what you have to say about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:50 am 
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temu wrote:
Rico brings it home. Eric Bissell can show Yeshua backwards and forwards in the Aleph-Tau...so much so, that Nehemia Gordon won't listen to him...calls him (with disrespect) "alphabet boy". He lost Nehemia in 10 minutes.



Ahhh

He is the one Nehemia talked about. Yeah. That was very rude. Kinda ticked me off when he said it, even though IO did not know who he was talking about. :s_mad

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:44 am 
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Yeah I'm sorry to hear that he spoke about him that way. I thought Nehemia was a follower of Yeshua? Maybe I am mistaken and remember incorrectly. I watched him do the hand washing ritual in a talk.


Well you guys aren't concurring or disagreeing, maybe I am way off base here. It looked like it worked.


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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:04 pm 
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I believe He was the physical child of Miriam. Thus, the physical progeny of Judah. If you wish to go through the father's side for Judah, adopted children are just as blood children, according to the Tanakh.

I do not believe that we are born sinners, but we are born with a sin nature, which is inherited through blood. Yeshua did not have this sin nature. Thus He was able to be tempted, but not succumb to temptation.

I hope that makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Lemon, do you think that sin nature could also be called free will?


What do you think of the footsteps?



ETA:

Ok I just watched the YM video, Temu. whoa.


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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:06 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Hello,

I do not believe that we were born with original sin as most 'Christian', etc. religions teach.

I do not believe in Paul's teachings or writings in the NT as some of you already know. That is clearer to me and I have already written this on other forums in the past.

Too much to say there for fear I will lose my post again in the WWWeb by being signed out here.

I do not agree with a LOT of religious things that were taught to me as a child or as an adult.

The 'protestant religions' that some of you used to belong to and/or may be in now is a whole OTHER thing than what some of us were taught in more orthodox and old fashioned 'Christian' religions. Some of what I used to study, read and/or visit was really quite OFF the WALL to me when it came to some of those protestant religions. NO offense to anyone here. I am talking about basic protestant religions now when I say this not HRM teachings.

HRM is still confusing to me because some of what you accept and don't accept seems to be just as 'picky' as some of those old fashioned and MODERN protestant religions, RC, GO, Jewish, etc. that you LEFT or do not agree with. NO offense to anyone here.

I think that it was FALSE teaching, revised Bibles, bad translations, concordances that were written by and endorsed by many false teachers who may (!) or may not (?) have had good intentions = False Religions.

On to the next one so I don't lose this post by taking too long to type with my sore hands.

Catherine

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Quote:
HRM is still confusing to me because some of what you accept and don't accept seems to be just as 'picky' as some of those protestant religions that you LEFT or do not agree with. NO offense to anyone here.


No offense taken ;)

Got any examples?

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:59 pm 
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lemon_fresh wrote:
Quote:
HRM is still confusing to me because some of what you accept and don't accept seems to be just as 'picky' as some of those protestant religions that you LEFT or do not agree with. NO offense to anyone here.


No offense taken ;)

Got any examples?


Thanks for your understanding, LF.

I may come back and try to list some. I am on and off the telephone, back east, to my older sister and HER soon to be ex husband. They are going to call me back LD. Plus he just got out of the hospital last night. Their drama, especially her ___, is enough to drive everyone AWAY.

I am really sick to my stomach from it all and I refuse to talk to a brick wall. Been there - done that and, at her age, she will never change for the BETTER or listen to anyone unless she WANTS to change.

Catherine

EDITED: HER soon to be ex husband.

I am a remarried widow and was never divorced so when I fixed my sentence - you knew that I meant HER not me.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:34 pm 
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LF,

I would have to start another thread about what we discussed so I do not get off topic on THIS thread here.

Thanks.

Catherine

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Simone wrote:
Over at SB, there was a thread going where a non-religious person asked this:

Where does it say Jesus paid for our sins by dying on the cross?


Of course she got the typical responses of the NT verses and Isaiah 53.

I have went through Isaiah over and over, and Imo, it does not refer to Yeshua/Jesus. I think this just yet another grab and run with a verse to make it fit what christianity wants. So I posted my opinion that this actually does not refer to Yeshua and so those verse are not a valid answer to that question. That wasn't appreciated as you can imagine.

Anyway as the dicussion went on we began talking about Yeshua/Jesus and someone said he was incorruptible and born without sin because he is actually not the product of Mary- as in - Mary did not provide the egg, she was not his actual mother- he was formed/created and put into her without using any parts from her.
So the person said this is how he is born sinless.

So I asked how could he have actually been a physical descendant of Judah- if he had nothing from Judah- nothing from a man of Judah, nothing from a woman of Judah. I felt like this violates and invalidates that requirement- he didn't fit that requirement if he actually was not physically from Judah. Does this make sense to you folk?
I believe the other poster means that just because he 'came out' of Mary, that makes him Judah. Just because he was raised by Jewish parents in a Jewish culture..ect. I don't think so. I believe that just as it is written by God= that he had to be a physical descendant of David.

What say you?

AND if he was born incorruptible- with nothing from humans- (as this person states) how in the world did he overcome sin- if he was never able to sin in the first place.

This of course brings one right to thinking about being 'born in sin'.

This poster says Adam was not 'born in sin' he was born 'sinless' and yet he sinned. Ok. I can get that.

This poster says Jesus was not 'born in sin' he was born 'sinless' and yet he did not sin. Ok. I can get that.

But if there was no chance present for him to sin, then there was nothing to be accomplished, right?

How was he tempted, if there never really was any chance for him to be tempted.


I think this all relates extremely to the original question. It was insinuated there that I was changing the conversation. Well here we talk as things come up in a conversation, we go with it, however it flows, we don't limit the direction, to me, that is having a conversation. lol But eh, I think truly what it is, they do not want any alternate opinions expressed, I don't know if it worries them, but they are doing everything they can to shut down any discussion that doesn't like up with in their curio cabinet.


Hello,

Regarding that thread and Isaiah 53.

I posted on that thread 'over there' and said that some people believe it and some do not. Etc.

If memory serves me right - I put up the OT text with my explanation too. Here is what I said, not verbatim, to that OP over there.

Obviously Jews in the Jewish religion do not believe it IS about Jesus Christ since they do not think that Jesus was the 'messiah'.

Some Christians do not believe it and some do when it comes to those OT verses.

I do not think that I am allowed to PUT what I said to the OP here from another forum so I will NOT do that.

Personally, I do not believe that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus Christ although many people do.

I 'used' to believe that it was about Jesus Christ though.

Since I do not believe that Jesus Christ was or is GOD ALMIGHTY - CREATOR as many people do... I will leave it at that.

Catherine

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:30 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Simone wrote:
Catherine, one thing that *might* be the cause of some of the confusion, I only mention because I have seen it already, is that Jewish people as a general rule- (I'm being really broad categorizing here)- in general they believe in the 'oral law'. They think this has equivalent effect as the written law. Some might even say it is over the written law, but that is another whole subject. And so their faith plays out accordingly.

My understanding of the HRM'ers in general, is that they do not believe in the oral law. Maybe here or there you will find someone who believes in it under the terms of extra instruction given at Sinai- but not including the traditions/rabbinic discourse.

So you will see a difference there in observance from the effect of that. To me that is what makes HR folk look at bit different than Jewish folk in the eyes of the observing public.


Thanks.

I know reformed and orthodox Jews from back east and they, each group, are NOTHING like HRM folks when it comes to what the HRM folks observe, follow, dress, etc. in 'Jewish' customs. I do know that some HRM folks do some things that others do not in an HRM type of religion or belief system. Different stages in their religious education and and belief systems too.

Plus I do know and understand that HRM folks believe that Jesus was/is the messiah and they accept and believe in 'PAUL'S writings' in the NT. This is how I understand most of them.

I could be wrong or confused. I do NOT want to disrupt your thread here... sorry.

Catherine

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Simone wrote:
Thank you for your thoughts on Isaiah 53. I am the same, I used to think it spoke of Jesus, but that was before I even read anything or paid attention to what was being said or what was there. I'm not sure that Jews look at it that way just thinking of it not being about messiah, but that they view it as about David- as in David was lamenting how he was hounded and bothered.

I did recently have the thought of it being a seed of David, and therefore could be speaking of David in those terms, if that makes sense.

I agree with you, I do not adhere to the 'born with sin' idea, I think it is basically being born into a free will system and the consequences of that. So it follows that I really don't think that Jesus/Yeshua had to die for that.

BUT I have to tell you, that teaching that Temu sent by Rico, now he spoke about another aspect to that. I'm not sure if I am allowed to talk about his teachings, I guess I would be, we discuss other men's teachings? But he had some other thoughts that you might be interested in hearing. It really was a breath of fresh air.



Please talk about anything you like, I enjoy just having conversations and seeing where they go, they never end up where they started and I think that is cool.


Hello,

Sure discuss his teaching if it is allowed here... I think it is.

I do not think that Jesus or any person or deity had to DIE to 'save us' - I do not believe in that anymore. NO offense to you.

IF WE SIN - IT IS OUR FAULT - WE HAVE FREE WILL. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I ALWAYS BELIEVED IN.

This is what I believed in too - written it over and over again. BELOW.

If we sin, we have to ask GOD to forgive us, ask the person that we sinned against to forgive us, make it 'right' as best as we can for our offense/sin and go and sin NO more. Try to never sin again or screw up whatever we did. Now I KNOW THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE because NONE of us is perfect as God-Creator is. But we should try to be a better person in ALL ways and keep doing what is right in God's eyes. In OUR thoughts, words and deeds.

I know that my thoughts and words usually get me in trouble more than a DEED! I have to NIP my words from leaving MY MOUTH and try not to think something about someone who in my mind 'deserves it' for what they said or did to me or to a loved one of mine. Usually my first reaction is to be nice and later on let them know what I think of them when my words come out of my MOUTH. Cate now slaps her forehead and sighs. Grin.

Later...

Catherine

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Regarding Isaiah 53, let me present evidence for you on why it CAN'T be talking about Israel, as the rabbis say.

Let's start with 52, though, as the rabbis are partially correct. 52:1-9 is most definitely talking about Israel. Please note that Israel is referred to as they, them, and my people. Always plural, never singular. Verse 9 states that He has comforted His people (plural) and redeemed Jerusalem (i.e. the whole nation). Verse 10 goes on to say HOW he comforted and redeemed His people. It was by His bared (revealed) right arm, the salvation (YESHUA) of God. It then goes on to describe His revealed right arm, which is salvation. Israel has never been their own salvation. Never. Therefore, the descriptors given can't be talking about Israel. Verse 13 states that HE (the servant) will be exalted and extolled. Notice it is singular. It is referring to His right arm, not His people (plural). His visage and His form was marred. Again, singular.

And it continues into 53, still discussing the arm of the Lord (verse 1). . .

HE shall go up
HE has no form
we shall see HIM
we should desire HIM
HE is despised
A MAN of sorrows
hid our faces from HIM
esteemed HIM not
HE bore our grief
esteemed HIM
HE was wounded
HE was bruised
was upon HIM
with HIS stripes
hath laid on HIM
HE was taken
HE was cut off
was HE stricken
HE made HIS grave
in HIS death
HE had done
in HIS mouth
to bruise HIM
HIS soul


It continues, but you get the point. It is all singular, and talking about God's bared right arm, salvation.

On the converse, Isaiah 53 also has the plurality spoken of in 52, which refers to Israel, God's people.

that WE should desire
rejected of MEN
WE hid OUR faces
WE esteemed him not
born OUR griefs
carried OUR sorrows
WE did esteem him
for OUR transgressions
bruised for OUR iniquities
of OUR peace
WE are healed
all WE like sheep
WE have turned
iniquity of US

And it goes on. The plural, when taken in context, is in reference to God's people.

In context, the suffering servant cannot be Israel. I will continue on shortly

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:59 am 
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Thanks Lemon I want to look at this, but the first thing that jumped out at me is that Israel is called the firstborn son and that is singular.


ok back to reading..


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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:46 am 
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Indeed. But in the context of Isaiah 52&53, Israel is always referred to in the plural.

The Messiah in Isaiah 53 is not relegated to only Christian thought, though . . .

--Sanhedrin 98a: The Rabbis said: His name is 'the leper scholar,' as it is written, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God, and afflicted (Isaiah 53:4)

--Midrash Siphré: R. Yosé the Galilaean said, Come forth and learn the righteousness of the King Messiah and the reward of the just from the first man who received but one commandment, a prohibition, and transgressed it: consider how many deaths were inflicted upon himself, upon his own generations, and upon those that followed them, till the end of all generations. Which attribute is greater, the attribute of goodness, or the attribute of vengeance? He answered, The attribute of goodness is the greater, and the attribute of vengeance is less; how much more, then will the King Messiah, who endures affliction and pains for the transgressors (as it is written, “He was wounded, (Isaiah 53:5)” etc.) justify all generations! And this is what is meant when it is said, “And the Lord made the iniquity of us all meet upon him. (Isaiah 53:6)"

--Midrash P’siqtha: The Holy One brought forth the soul of the Messiah, and said to him…Art thou willing to…redeem my sons…? He replied, I am. God replied, If so, thou must take upon thyself chastisements in order to wipe away their iniquity, as it is written, “Surely our sicknesses he hath carried. (Isaiah 53:3)” The Messiah answered, I will take them upon me gladly.

--Midrash Konen: The fifth mansion in Paradise…there dwell Messiah son of David, and Elijah, and Messiah son of Ephraim. There also is the “litter of the wood of Lebanon”…and within it Messiah son of David who loveth Jerusalem. Elijah takes him by the head, lays him down in his bosom, holds him, and says, “Bear thou sufferings and wounds wherewith the Almighty doth chastise thee for Israel’s sin;” and so it is written, He was wounded for our transgression, bruised for our iniquities, until the time when the end should come." (Isaiah 53:5)

--Yalkut II: Messiah…He shall be higher than Abraham (Isaiah 52:13)

--Zohar II 121a: There is in the garden of Eden a palace called the Palace of the sons of sickness: this palace the Messiah then enters, and summons every sickness, every pain, and every chastisement of Israel; they all come and rest upon him. And were it not that he had thus lightened them off Israel and taken them upon himself, there had been no man able to bear Israel’s chastisements for transgressions of the law: and this is that which is written, “Surely our sickness he hath carried.” (Isaiah 53:4)

--Bereshith Rabbah: This is that which is written, “I will lift mine eyes unto the hills: O whence cometh my help” (Ps. Cxxi. I)? and, “Who art thou, O great mountain” (Zech. iv. 7)? The great mountain means the Messiah, and why does he speak of him thus? Because he is greater than the patriarchs, as it is said, “Behold my servant shall prosper.”

I have learnt it from the words of R. Mosheh had-Darshan: The redeemer whom I shall raise up from among you will have no father, as it is written, “Behold the man whose name is Zemah [branch], and he shall branch up out of his place” (Zech. vi. 12); and so Isaiah says, “And he came up like a sucker,” etc.

Says R. B’rckhyah, The Holy One said to Israel…the redeemer whom I shall raise up out of your midst will have no father also, as it is said, “Behold the man whose name is the Branch, and he shall branch up out of his place” (Zech. vi. 12); and similarly by Isaiah, “And he came up as a sucker before him.”

The Holy One said…O Messiah, my righteousness, said he, the iniquities of those who are hidden beside thee will cause thee to enter into a hard yoke: thine eyes shall see no light, and thine ears shall hear great reproaches from the nations of the world; thy nostrils shall smell ill savours, thy mouth taste bitterness, and thy tongue cleave to thy gums; thy skin shall hang upon thy bones, and thy body grow weak in grief and sighing. Art thou willing to accept this? if so, it shall be well; but if not, behold, I drive them from me for ever. Said the Messiah, Lord of the world, I accept it joyfully and will endure these chastisements, upon the condition that thou givest life again to those who die in my days, and to those who died from the time of the first man until now; and that thou savest in my days not only these…but such as were born out of due time; nor again these only, but those also whom thou thoughtest to create but who were not created. The Holy One replied, I will do so: and forthwith the Messiah accepted the chastisements of love, as it is written, “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted.”

This is the King Messiah, who belonged to the generation of the wicked, but rejected them, and chose the Holy One and his holy name to serve him with all his heart, and applied himself to seek for mercy for Israel, and to fast and humble himself on their behalf, as it is said, “He was wounded for our transgressions,” etc. And when Israel is sinful, the Messiah seeks for mercy upon them, as it is written, “By his stripes we were healed,” and “He carried the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

--Peskita Rabbati: Then took Messiah lovingly all the sufferings upon himself.

--Mysteries of R. Shi’on ben Yohai: the Holy One will reveal to them Messiah, the son of David, whom Israel will desire to stone, saying, Thou spakest falsely; already is the Messiah slain, and there is none other Messiah to stand up (after him): and so they will despise him, as it is written, “Despised and forlorn of men;”

--Legah Tov: “And let his kingdom be exalted,” in the days of the Messiah, of whom it is said, “Behold my servant shall prosper; he will be high and exalted, and lofty exceedingly.

--Don Yitzhaq Abarbanel says: "The first question is to ascertain to whom it refers: for the learned among the Nazarenes expound it of the man who was crucified in Jerusalem at the end of the second Temple, and who, according to them, was the Son of God, and took flesh in the virgin’s womb, as is stated in their writings. But Yonathan ben Uzziel interprets it in the Thargum of the future Messiah; but this is also the opinion of our learned men in the majority of their Midrashim." (ca 1500CE)

--Rabbi Sa’adyah Ibn Danan of Grenada stated: "One of these, R. Joseph ben Kaspi, was led so far as to say that those who expounded it of the Messiah, who is shortly to be revealed, gave occasion to the heretics to interpret it of Jesus. May G-d, however, forgive him for not having spoken the truth! Our Rabbis, the doctors of the Thalmud, deliver their opinions by the power of prophecy, possessing a tradition concerning the principles of interpretation…alludes covertly to the King Messiah"

--Rabbi Eliyyah de Vidas states: "This is that which is written, But he was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, the meaning of which is that since the Messiah bears our iniquities which produce the effect of his being bruised, it follows that whoso will not admit that the Messiah thus suffers for our iniquities, must endure and suffer for them himself,"

And even in modern times . . .

--Before his death on June 12, 1994, Lubavitcher Rabbi Menachem Schneerson was considered by many in his ultra-orthodox sect to be the Messiah. He was very ill during his last months. His followers placed an advertisement in the Manhattan Jewish Sentinel less than two months before his death. The advertisement stated:

Quote:
MOSHIACH FACT #20

HOW CAN THE REBBE BE MOSHIACH IF HE IS ILL?


Moshiach is described as one who is ill, “and he is wounded for our transgressions (Yeshayahu 53)”. When his time comes G-d says: I shall make him as a new creation. Thus the verse says, Today I have given birth to him, his moment of healing has come. (Yalkut Shimoni, Tehillim, Ch.2)






I would recommend the book "The Fifty-Third Chapter of Isaiah According to the Jewish Interpreters."

It is completely unbiased and gives all the interpretations that have been given for this passage.


You must remember that there was pretty much a three way battle going on for a great part of the last 2000 years. Just as you do not put all your eggs in one basket with Christianity, do not do put all your eggs in one basket with Judaism either.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:05 pm 
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...............


Last edited by Simone on Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Catherine, here they are, those teachings by Rico, you might really be interested in them.



http://wisdomintorah.com/covenant-of-the-pieces/


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 Post subject: Re: Yeshua and sinning
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:58 pm 
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lemon_fresh wrote:

You must remember that there was pretty much a three way battle going on for a great part of the last 2000 years. Just as you do not put all your eggs in one basket with Christianity, do not do put all your eggs in one basket with Judaism either.


LF,

Thank you for your long and detailed response to me. I appreciate the time that you took to put this up for me.

I view and understand this differently at this point.

I will say that I do not put all of my eggs in one basket when it comes to ANY religion - Christian, Jewish, etc. At this point, I do NOT agree with any specific one 75 to 100%. Just when I think that I agree with something - the 'religion' or leaders say or do or compromise some OTHER thing that I totally do NOT agree with and I will not 'go along with' because of various reasons. Plus those leaders back it up with some modern WRITING that does NOT agree with x, y or z and it is ALL compromise.

I have been OUT of 'religion' by choice for over 30 years now.

That does NOT mean that I do not believe in God Almighty because I DO. I believe that God almighty created the entire universe.

I already mentioned what I believe on here and elsewhere.

The two greatest commandments. Love, honor and follow God. Treat your fellow man as you would want to be treated. OT, NT, Tanakh and in other religious books including the Qu'ran although many people don't know that fact.

Most NON religious people believe in the 'Golden Rule' as some of us call it too.

Follow the Ten Commandments.

I have too much to say here and I do not know if I want ALL of my thoughts on a public forum when it comes to some things that I question at this time as I have in the past.

God bless you and yours. Thanks again. Peace.

Sincerely,

Catherine
PS: I do not intend to write all of this over again on other forums. I do not want censorship, editing, banning although what I have to say is nothing to be banned for and I have never been banned plus I do NOT want all of the 'fighting'. There is a huge difference between a discussion, questions, answers, a agree to disagree and vice versa discussion and the crapola that I see on many other forums now. ALL kinds of forums. Holy Moly! Discernment is becoming clearer and clearer to me when it comes to the WWWeb.

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