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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:36 pm 
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Hey Psalm 119! I'm so glad to see you are still here!

This is a topic that was touched upon last night (Fri. Erev Shabbat) at the synagouge I have begun to go to. It was addressed along with the holidays that Christians celebrate with the comparison that they celebrate the same holidays Messianics do, but they do them at different times than Jews or Messianics. I'm not arguing the Christian perspective v Messianic or Jewish perspective here,ur will be honored on Wed. Sept. 23rd for worship and for breaking the fast which began the night before. but simply sharing the context of what was discussed.

It was also addressed that even among the Jews, there are debates about which is the ''correct'' dates regarding the Holy Days. That's the main point...who has the right dates.

Among our group here, there are some varying thoughts regarding the correct dates to celebrate this or that. Sometimes the scriptures themselves leave us a tad bit confused. Sometimes we aren't even absolutely sure what constitutes a 'New Moon', but as for ME, my thought is that we are all trying to do the right thing, and the main point (to me) is that we are each trying to honor and glorify YHVH, to the best of our ability and to the best of our knowledge, with heartfelt worship in mind.

I have become hungry for fellowship beyond just internet forums and so I have become a little more involved with a local fellowship in my city called Remnant of Israel, a Messianic-Jewish fellowship consisting of both Jews and Gentiles, some grafted in, some in the process...and so I will celebrate with them on the dates chosen by the Elders of that fellowship.

We will see Rosh Hashanah on Monday, Sept. 14th at 7pm

Yom Kippur will be honored on Wed. Sept. 23rd for worship and for breaking the fast which began the night before. Worship will be at 6pm with the fast breaking at 7pm.

Sukkot for us will be Saturday, Oct. 3rd.

The 8th day, Monday Oct 5th

They will set up the Sukkah on Sunday Sept 27 at 5pm. I don't know this year what the traditional days are for Sukkot, I haven't looked that far ahead as I've had quite a lot on my own personal plate these days and have been a tad bit distracted.

What i have written here is not by way of teaching, but in only answering your question as to what I personally will be doing, and when.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:11 pm 
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We began last shabbat with Teruah! Tomorrow evening begins Kippurim for our group; then the 12th-19th for sukkot/shemini atzeret. We don't use the no moon, or the sliver moon...our chodesh moon is full-y restored! :drinks:

Big group this year, so happy Eric Bissell will be flying in for the party!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:12 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
Sometimes the scriptures themselves leave us a tad bit confused. Sometimes we aren't even absolutely sure what constitutes a 'New Moon', but as for ME, my thought is that we are all trying to do the right thing, and the main point (to me) is that we are each trying to honor and glorify YHVH, to the best of our ability and to the best of our knowledge, with heartfelt worship in mind.


:friends:

We have beat this topic up for years. It's just not an easy 'thus sayeth'. I was talking to Lew White the other day when he was doing a little beat down on others who oppose his NO moon as the new moon. After beating around the bush a bit, he admitted that he couldn't be certain either...but mainly aligning with 'brother Judah'...same as Bill Cloud does. That reason never satisfied me at all.

If anyone is interested, I can briefly explain our reasons for the full moon as the new moon.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:11 pm 
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Thanks so much for your responses Judith and Temu.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:14 pm 
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Would be very interested to hear your explanation Temu.

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Know ye not that ye are the temple of Yahweh, and that the Spirit of Yahweh dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of Yahweh, him shall Yahweh destroy; for the temple of Yahweh is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:27 am 
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Some go with traditional Judaism, some go with the Karaites, some go with Enochian, some use Equinox; no moon, sliver moon, etc. We have simply tried to block out all outside input from these various methods and go with Scripture only with restoration as the goal. That was the hardest part, looking at the topic with fresh eyes and block out everything we had read through other opinions. Usually we would just side with the one that seems to present the best case, even looking to traditions to help solidify opinion.

Two great lights were Created in the beginning, one to rule the day; the lesser to rule the night. It is our belief that when these were created, they were not created invisible (no moon), or partial (sliver); but in their fullest substance, fullest light (full moon). No moon certainly cannot rule the night, a brief glimpse and then darkness again won’t do the job either. If the goal is restoration, and Scriptures tell us it is, we simply believe this fits all of Scripture better than the alternative views. And that is the foundation of why we have come to understand the full moon meets these principles.

Just some considerations: The Full Moon/Abib Barley Calendar seems to fits the Scriptures from beginning to end and may solve many Calendar issues. Unlike the conjunction calendar, the beginning of the month is observable as Scripture prescribes. It is in perfect alignment with concept of Chodesh (even POLISHED and SHINY)--restored, renewed, rejuvenated, recreated---and YHUH’s original instruction to the moon to rule the night with light--not vanish just after appearing leaving the world in darkness! It puts Pesach in darkness which is Scriptural, or “thick darkness” as the Scriptures say repeatedly, in which the messenger of death did his work. It also requires the light of YHUH’s pillar of fire to guide Israel in the darkness, and fits with Abraham’s Passover experience in thick darkness in the valley of blood, and with YHUSHA’s declaration to the mob on the night before His Pesach, “this is your hour, when darkness reigns.” It fits. Albeit not by traditions.

Beyond that it becomes a beautiful illustration of the Bride who descends from the perfect plan that YHUH had for her, into the darkness of the fall, and back into the light of full restoration. Instead of turning her face from darkness into the full light of Messiah and then back into darkness again, she falls from HIs grace (light) into darkness but is restored into the fullness of His light reflecting Him with every part of her being.

This could go on and on but you get the point. The sliver moon and conjunction calendars fall short from a Hebraic standpoint. They teach that the Chodesh or restoration leaves the world in darkness--un-illuminated--just as the sliver and the conjunction do. The concept of Chodesh, or full restoration is lost. The darkness and the sliver are inconsistent with the meaning of the letters Chet-Dalet-Shin---the portal of the month defined by enclosed brightness and light. The illustrations created by the darkness and the sliver are not accurate pictures of our Messiah and His Bride. But all these considerations may solved by the restored moon, and by a Scripturally accurate understanding of the Abib which YHUH controls with the Sun.

---------------

Pro 7:19-20 For the man is not at home; He is gone a long journey: He hath taken a bag of money with him; He will come home at the full moon*.

Psa 81:3 Blow the ram’s horn at the time of the New Moon, At the full moon*, on our festival day.

keseh*...

H3677
כּסה כּסא
kese' keseh
keh'-seh, keh'-seh
Apparently from H3680; properly fulness or the full moon, that is, its festival: - (time) appointed.

Shalom!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:13 pm 
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It boils down to THIS, Terry:

The barley is ABIB on the sliver. Plain and simple. Deal with the full moon as the death of the first born in Egypt...

I love you, but I simply cannot understand your reasoning when it defies logic and is against the basic definition of "NEW MOON"...

:rose:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:02 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:

The barley is ABIB on the sliver


The barley is abib when it's abib...no sooner, no later...THEN the moon is determined.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:04 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:

I love you, but I simply cannot understand your reasoning when it defies logic and is against the basic definition of "NEW MOON"...


Some say no moon, some say partial moon, we say restored, full moon. I have given many reasons...but it only defies TRADITION.

Oh, and remember...we did the sliver for many years, though we could not prove it from Scripture...we just went along with the flow.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:44 pm 
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Tejas, would you agree with this:

Two great lights were Created in the beginning, one to rule the day; the lesser to rule the night. It is our belief that when these were created, they were not created invisible, but in all their fullness.

Yeah or nay?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:32 pm 
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Thought you may enjoy our planned festivities...

"Sukkot Around the Inn - 2015"

Dear Torah Family,

Welcome to “Sukkot Around The Inn - 2015”! SEPTEMBER 11 thru SEPTEMBER 20

We are located in Sonora, California about an hour from the northern entrance to Yosemite National Park. We have a bed and breakfast that will be closed during this time so that we can celebrate Sukkot around the Inn.

Eric Bissell will be with us for all eight days. We will have a midrash and presentation each evening regarding the road of Teshuva--mapping the course of return to YHWH’s Word. Even if you are on a different calendar come and enjoy the fellowship and teaching!! We would LOVE to see everyone!

A Note from Eric Bissell:


The Object of Desire

Who's desire?
How about yours for example...
What do you consider to be important- or necessary... (not exactly the same)
Is it a whim ? or essential ?
Essential for what end, what purpose?
What qualifies it as a real matter? Is it okay to just want something ?
What does YHUH want ? What does He desire ?
He tells us in the Scripture...
Did He change His mind ? or when He said "forever"... does He still mean "forever" ?
Isaiah 45: 19. ...I did not tell the descendants of Yacov to seek Me for nothing...
Jeremiah 31: 20, 21. ... Determine for yourself the most solidly trustworthy pillars of my regard
of you, station them as a wall of Shields... way markers by which you recall My exploits as your
champion, My reputation being towards your behalf.
Point out My distinguished favor which your forefathers substituted for My wrath in exchange for
their evasive meandering.
Regard attentively what your heart is woven with...
Stop and consider what should be valued, versus tossed aside as worthless.
--- What bitter drink has brought your heart lament and weeping ?
Designate the "Camino Real" the "Royal Highway"
Map the course of "Return".
"Teshuva"
Guide the restoration of innocence-- the disregard for which YSRAL was taken into captivity.
Arrange these as your signposts along the way...
Expose the Legal Precepts as Roadside Taverns where My Name is drunk-
My words edited- arranged- prepared- set in order...
Many promises begin with "if..." or "when..."
That's us now. The remnant of YSRAL scattered across the world...
Returning to TORAH.
"Encompassing His stated preference". (Jer. 20: 21)
expecting all He said is True.
...what did He say?

So...How does this work? What do we Bring?

1. Pick a Spot to Put your Tent/Sukkah

We are setting up camp around the Inn. There are several flat areas around the driveway, the flat area at the top of the Inn, the porches, the driveway and the grassy knoll. Although space is limited, there is enough space around the driveway to find a space to call your own for the 8 days. If you camp on the grass, we just ask that you move your tent on the 3rd or 4th days a few feet so that the grass gets a chance to recover before the Inn opens again for business.

2. What about Meals? Will There Be a Place to Prepare Food?

We will be serving breakfast and dinner every day during the Feast. (Bring what you would like for lunch or any snacks or speciality foods you eat) We will have a temporary outdoor kitchen arranged under a large, white tent where you will have access to a shared refrigerator, 2 propane camp stoves, a barbeque, a sink with cold running water and a large prep table. We have a 5 gallon filtered water container and there is a coffee maker. There will be some basic pots and pans and utensils that can be used by everyone. If you like to cook with something specific...bring it.

Water, coffee, fruit and refreshments will be available at the big tent throughout the week. Families will be responsible for their own lunches prepared there. In the evenings we will go up to the covered porches around the house and have dinner together outside.

Camp breakfast will be served generally between 8:30am - 9:00am and Dinner will take place around 6:00pm daily. Because of the drought and having such a large group of people, we will be eating on paper plates unless you bring your own dishes and want to take care of your own clean up for your family :)


Help with preparation and cleanup and costs of dinners is greatly appreciated but not mandatory in any way.


3. What Happens After Breakfast? After Dinner?

We have prepared a daily schedule that has some events planned for specific days. For those of you who want to remain at the Inn, that is no problem. If you choose to go on the day trips, an itinerary follows. In the evenings, (which may vary a bit depending on when we return from the day trips), we will have dinner, nightly midrash, discussions and teachings with Eric Bissell. We also have a fire pit if it is not too hot :)


4. What About Bathrooms? Will There be a Place to Shower?

There will be 2 bathrooms available at the Inn. You will be responsible to bring your own towels/showering toiletries, etc. Also, we are asking for those staying to take short showers to help everyone be able to share the bathrooms. These 2 bathrooms are located in the basement and on the first floor of the Inn.
We ask that everyone staying may keep a watchful eye on making sure the bathrooms stay clean, stocked and tidy. We will have all the necessary cleaning supplies close.


5. Can I do Laundry?

There are 3 washing machines and 3 dryers in the basement available for use during the time of Sukkot. Detergent is provided.


6. Current Proposed Schedule (subject to change as the need arises)

• Friday, 9/11 Preparation Day
Preparation day around the Inn. Setup camp and build sukkahs, set up outdoor kitchen, the big tent of meeting, get bathrooms ready, etc.

• Shabbat/1st day of Sukkot, 9/12
This is the first Shabbat Shabbaton of the Feast. According to the Torah this day is set aside to build our Sukkahs. However it is also a weekly Shabbat. IF you want to get your Sukkah ready the day before you are welcome to do that or you can do it today. Some raw materials will be available such as olive branches. If you want to use other types of trees feel free to bring them. Other materials like ribbon, flowers, lights, fruit decor, etc can be used to embellish your sukkah! :)


• Sunday, 9/13 -Day trip to “Paradise” (Gail & Eleanor, Terry & Lenore will host us at their ranches near Yosemite)
After breakfast we will load up and caravan to the ranches. If your car can’t handle dirt roads, don’t worry...you can catch a ride in one of our Suburbans or load up with a friend. We will be heading out after breakfast (around 10am)

This is about a 1-1/2 hr. drive through the forest. When we arrive we will have a tour of “off the grid” living, including ponds, solar power, organic gardening, etc. of the property and then those who would like can head up the hill about 10 minutes away to partake in:

Skeet Shooting (bring your shotgun if you have one and a box of shells. If you don’t have one, don’t worry we’ll provide one for you. If you can contribute a box of shells or clay pigeons that would be great or $15 should cover the cost...but not necessary to partake)

For those of you who do not want to participate in shooting, you can choose to remain at the house and relax with views of the meadow. Then when our shooters return, prepare yourself for

One of THE Best Outdoor Barbeques You Will Ever Encounter!

We will return back to the Inn around sundown where we will continue with our campfire midrash and presentation.

For those of you who choose to stay at the Inn this day, you will be responsible for your own dinner.

• Monday, 9/14 Camp Day at the Inn

Breakfast 8:30am - 9:00am

SURVIVAL SKILLS DEMONSTRATION by Sgt. Aaron Rasmussen (time to be determined)

Walk to town...Enjoy the Area...Drive to Columbia...
If there is enough interest, we will demonstrate bread making
tzitzityot braiding
Firetruck Rides
Late Fireside Discussion with Eric Bissell

• Tuesday, 9/15 Day trip to Pinecrest Lake for Picnic
We will spend a casual day at the lake. Bring your own lunch and enjoy beautiful Pinecrest Lake located only about 45 minutes away from the Inn. Things to do here include swimming, boat rentals, kayaking (we will bring 2 doubles if anyone would like to ride), floating in rafts (bring one if you have it) and there is a path around the lake for anyone who would like a nice little hike....or just relaxing under the trees.

Bring your camping chair and lunch or snacks :)

We will leave after breakfast around 10:00am and return in time for dinner at 6pm and nightly fireside meeting at the Inn.

• Wednesday, 9/16 Day Trip to Help a Couple in GREAT NEED
We know a couple who would love to join us for Sukkot but cannot because of serious illness. They live about an hour away in Merced. We would like to bless them by spending a day doing much needed cleanup and maintenance around their house and bringing Sukkot to them. This is the true essence of Torah...to love and support our fellow family!

We will leave after breakfast and return in time for dinner and discussion with at the Inn.

• Thursday, 9/17 -- DUTCH OVEN DINNER night at the Butler Ranch!

This is an exciting and amazing treat! We will be leaving the Inn at 3:45pm to travel about 25 minutes away to the Butler Ranch to have dinner at their beautiful ranch. We will spend time during the day earlier preparing meals for our dutch ovens. Google "dutch oven cooking" if your not familiar and see how the cowboys make their meals. I guarantee there is NOTHING like the taste of a meal that has been buried under the ground cooking and oh my...the flavor!! Ron & his son Lee will show us the cooking techniques of dutch oven cooking and we will have various pots cooking at once over coals. Cheryl, Ron's wife is an amazing hostess! This will of course culminate in a dreamy dinner. Plan what you would like to bring and let's make a day of it! :)


• Friday, 9/18 Day trip to Big Trees State Park for a picnic
Pack a lunch and join us for a drive to the large Sequoia trees at Big Trees State Park about 55 minutes away. Here you will find a level, meandering path through the big giant trees. We will have a brown bag lunch and enjoy the nature around us. For those who want to venture into Murphys to see the quaint town, there will be plenty of time or take a walk through the 1800‘s town of Columbia on the way home.

Dinner and Campfire midrash and discussion with Eric

• Sabbath, 9/19 Shemeni Atzeret--the Last Great Day--a day of great rejoicing. Blow the shofars and trumpets! Camp day at the Inn. Relaxed schedule and time for discussion and study in camp.

• Sunday, 9/20
Break camp and take down big tent and outdoor kitchen.


Other Nights Being Waiting for Confirmation or Being Considered:

First Aid Demo
Game Night


List of Items to Bring or Consider:

Food/dinnerware/etc....you will be responsible for making lunch for your own family...bring your own paper plates to contribute and some paper towels too.
Tent
Sleeping bags
Air mattress / Cot
Ground cover tarp
Camp chair for each person in your family
Towels
Flashlight
Toilet paper
Personal hygiene items
Sandals/flip flops
Layered clothing
bathing suit
ammo or money to donate if you are shooting (clay pigeons, 12 gauge or 16 gauge available at Wal-Mart)

***Please RSVP if you can or cannot attend and even if you can only stay for a short while or just join in for some of the celebration! :)
Fred and Rhonda Buess
253 Knowles Hill Drive
Sonora CA, 95370

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:32 pm 
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Thanks so much for expounding on that Temu. :s_smile

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:42 pm 
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temu wrote:
Tejas, would you agree with this:

Two great lights were Created in the beginning, one to rule the day; the lesser to rule the night. It is our belief that when these were created, they were not created invisible, but in all their fullness.

Yeah or nay?


I do hope that you had a good feast, brother, and I love you and Fred and Rhonda very much...

But you just made my point with what you said here... I agree that YHWH created the two great lights: the sun to RULE the day, and the moon to RULE the night.

The sun kills the night and SIGNIFIES when the day has started with the dawning of it every NEW DAY.

The moon kills the night (conjunction) when the FIRST SLIVER appears in the night's sky and SIGNIFIES when the month has started with the first light of the 28 cycle of light, followed by two days of darkness.

It simply defies logic for you to say that the FULL MOON signifies the beginning of the month when you don't know when the full moon begins with the naked eye. However, you DO know when the moon obliterates the DARKNESS of the night (conjunction) when the first sliver is first perceived by the naked eye, SIGNIFYING the first time in the month that LIGHT is seen...

You all are attempting to redefine the concept "NEW MOON" with a full moon idea when the definition has always been there since ancient times by the Jews, who have always kept it that way, and the SLIVER has always been the NEW MOON by definition. It is not "some say conjunction, some say sliver..." It is ONLY the sliver, not the conjunction, and not the full moon...

I think the JEWS are more logical in their "tradition" than this novel full moon doctrine of yours, and I would rather side with the Jews on this issue, since "salvation is OF the Jews... [and] unto THEM are committed the Oracles of YHWH..."

Sorry, but I think y'all are in the ditch on this issue, not the Jews. I think this is a false doctrine, and so I cannot fellowship with you on this matter...

When I keep Yom Teruah with my family on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 (beginning Monday night the 14th), we will be looking closely at the sky for a SLIVER, and blowing our shofars and shouting at the moon because it LOOKS LIKE a shofar on that day, Yah-willing and may it be so.

:rose:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the YHWH of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that the Mighty One is with you.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Thanks TJ! I know that the Jews, like many other religions, have adopted some man-made traditions. At the same time, there are some things that they do know, better than we do. When i look at the full moon I can know it is the 15th day of the month which makes the sliver the first day of the renewed moon cycle. At the end of the cycle, we have a pause, (moon-a-pause? Lol) and ,he cycle begins again. The moon increases and then begins to decrease midway thru the cycle.

Yhvh tends to use life as we know it as object lessons to teach us about Himself, so there are a few traditions that are important, even if not life and death issues. Some do act as pointers or guides to those important things. Case in point, the lighting of two candles at shabbat. Lots of symbology there. Even the sun and moon are given to us as object lessons to teach us some otherwise difficult concepts about YHVH.

Some day, they too will cease to exist as they wont be needed.

I just learned that we will celebrate Rosh Hashana on Monday at the river. We will gather in the afternoon and the service will begin at 6pm. I am looking forward to it.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:28 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
temu wrote:
Tejas, would you agree with this:

Two great lights were Created in the beginning, one to rule the day; the lesser to rule the night. It is our belief that when these were created, they were not created invisible, but in all their fullness.

Yeah or nay?


I do hope that you had a good feast, brother, and I love you and Fred and Rhonda very much...

But you just made my point with what you said here... I agree that YHWH created the two great lights: the sun to RULE the day, and the moon to RULE the night.

The sun kills the night and SIGNIFIES when the day has started with the dawning of it every NEW DAY.

The moon kills the night (conjunction) when the FIRST SLIVER appears in the night's sky and SIGNIFIES when the month has started with the first light of the 28 cycle of light, followed by two days of darkness.

It simply defies logic for you to say that the FULL MOON signifies the beginning of the month when you don't know when the full moon begins with the naked eye. However, you DO know when the moon obliterates the DARKNESS of the night (conjunction) when the first sliver is first perceived by the naked eye, SIGNIFYING the first time in the month that LIGHT is seen...

You all are attempting to redefine the concept "NEW MOON" with a full moon idea when the definition has always been there since ancient times by the Jews, who have always kept it that way, and the SLIVER has always been the NEW MOON by definition. It is not "some say conjunction, some say sliver..." It is ONLY the sliver, not the conjunction, and not the full moon...

I think the JEWS are more logical in their "tradition" than this novel full moon doctrine of yours, and I would rather side with the Jews on this issue, since "salvation is OF the Jews... [and] unto THEM are committed the Oracles of YHWH..."

Sorry, but I think y'all are in the ditch on this issue, not the Jews. I think this is a false doctrine, and so I cannot fellowship with you on this matter...

When I keep Yom Teruah with my family on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 (beginning Monday night the 14th), we will be looking closely at the sky for a SLIVER, and blowing our shofars and shouting at the moon because it LOOKS LIKE a shofar on that day, Yah-willing and may it be so.

:rose:


Opinion noted. Like I said, we all did the sliver but could not prove it from Scripture. Full moon fits. Tradition, not so much.

Shabbat shalom!

Huge group this year, sukkas all around the Inn! HalleluYAH ya'll!

:yahoo:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:29 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
Thanks TJ! I know that the Jews, like many other religions, have adopted some man-made traditions. At the same time, there are some things that they do know, better than we do. When i look at the full moon I can know it is the 15th day of the month which makes the sliver the first day of the renewed moon cycle. At the end of the cycle, we have a pause, (moon-a-pause? Lol) and ,he cycle begins again. The moon increases and then begins to decrease midway thru the cycle.

Yhvh tends to use life as we know it as object lessons to teach us about Himself, so there are a few traditions that are important, even if not life and death issues. Some do act as pointers or guides to those important things. Case in point, the lighting of two candles at shabbat. Lots of symbology there. Even the sun and moon are given to us as object lessons to teach us some otherwise difficult concepts about YHVH.

Some day, they too will cease to exist as they wont be needed.

I just learned that we will celebrate Rosh Hashana on Monday at the river. We will gather in the afternoon and the service will begin at 6pm. I am looking forward to it.


Thank YOU, Judith! Great points all. I look at the Orthodox or even the Reform in their way, and I cannot judge them for the mistakes they make in their walk "traditionally" when they are world-renowned for keeping the covenants and commandments of Yah, despite the Babylonian traditions that have crept into their culture. I still recognize WHO they are in the grand scheme of things.

That is one main reason why I consider myself a Karaite because the Orthodox, etc. do not need to be schooled on keeping of Sabbath or Feasts as a FORM; it is the FUNCTION that is off... but nowhere NEAR as off as the Roman Catholic System that is COMPLETELY counterfeit of the "Judaizers" and spelled out for you to easily understand: "don't be like the Jews who keep Sabbath and Passover," etc... When I think of a congregation of believers who are in total darkness by way of their doctrines of demons, false covenants, meaningless rituals of religious outward show of piety, I think of Roman Catholics. When I think of the average orthodox Jew, what usually comes to mind is a person who is wise, frugal, self-controlled, strict to himself but liberal to others, and immensely pious to the Maker in a secret way that does not draw everybody's attention...

I, personally do not call it Rosh Hashana, for the "head" of the year, according to Torah is Abib... it has become synonymous to call Yom Teruah the same as Rosh Hashana, but my family and I will be keeping YOM TERUAH on Mon/Tues of this week... the sliver should be visible on Monday night, barring any weather.

All schisms of false religion come from the mother of harlots... and Rome is her city.
Judah has always been and will always be OPPOSITE Rome, and so, I prefer them over any schism of Rome...



:smile:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:31 am 
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TJ, thanks for your response. As i read it all i could do was say "wow" because, a friend of mine and I had a discussion just this morning which contained everything you said lol! It was ironic.

Last night I happened to be listening to Bill Cloud on the pc. He talked about unity among the brethren and the psalm that speaks of that. What stood out most to me was the difference between unity and uniformity. We can have unity here despite the fact that we are not uniform. We all believe in Yhvh even if we spell his name differently from one another lol! We all believe that tanach is his word, torah is his instruction, y'shuah is messiah, the resurrection will happen....so we do have much unity as well as unity of purpose.

Because Yah loves variety, we have that too which makes for some awesome discussions!

May we each find blessing and strength in the presence of the Most High, merciful Creator, as we come to him to honor his Kingship, and find mercy as we confess and repent on the day of reconing.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Psalm 119 wrote:
Thanks so much for expounding on that Temu. :s_smile


You are very welcome. We are thinking about putting a video together to post on my YouTube channel to illustrate the principle of restoration. Since one of my best friends restores pre-war Rolls-Royce cars, the idea was born to use one as an example of what true restoration looks like.

Act 3:20-21 and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which Elohim spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old.

Hope you all have a wonderful season!

:drinks:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:07 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the YHWH of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that the Mighty One is with you.


That's another great idea for a video! It may not say what you think it says...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:32 am 
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Here we go... :friends:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:35 pm 
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Not a bad take, but I just looked at the Stone's and it is logical and literal, and the KJV and others do adequately translate the Hebrew into English--minus the moronic rendering of "LORD" and "God," which I would agree is a false translation of those words, which is also why I replaced them in my post of that text as properly rendered "YHWH of hosts" and "the Mighty One." The clear use of the phrase "ish Yehudim" does not translate any other way than "man of the Jews...," the same whom the Mighty One is with. From a historical perspective, YHWH was not WITH any other nationality or religious system other than the Jews who continue to this day to keep his covenants as a world-renowned people.

While we are opining together, let me offer that this prophesy may have already been fulfilled in time with Acts 2, in which representatives form all TEN regions of the known world in which the Lost Tribes of Israel were scattered, in which the Galilean Jews who were taken over by YHWH's rushing wind did speak in the very tongues of the men who were gathered there to witness SHAVUOT of all things... even "Therefore let ALL the house of Israel know assuredly, that YHWH hath made that same Yahshua, whom ye have staked, both the Sovereign of all and Messiah" (vs 36).

Let me, once again, offer to you all that Yahshua was Jewish, who came to his OWN, whom "salvation is of...," whom "YHWH has committed his oracles unto...," who are the "cultivated olive tree," among whom some being cut off have provided for US, the wild olive tree to be cut off from our wild tree by nature and engrafted into JUDAH, even by the cutting off of the circumcision of our hearts, who is a JEW INWARDLY, so that "the middle wall partition that was against us has been torn down, and we which were once strangers and foreigners, from afar off have been brought INTO the house of the YAHUDIM."


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:47 pm 
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With the sliver begins the first day of the month of Tishri, and two weeks from now, I should be able to party hearty in my makeshift sukka, with the FULL MOON illuminating its full glory upon my family and my giddy heads...

Shalom Yom Teruah!

:yahoo:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:01 pm 
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temu wrote:
Psalm 119 wrote:
Thanks so much for expounding on that Temu. :s_smile


You are very welcome. We are thinking about putting a video together to post on my YouTube channel to illustrate the principle of restoration. Since one of my best friends restores pre-war Rolls-Royce cars, the idea was born to use one as an example of what true restoration looks like.

Act 3:20-21 and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which Elohim spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old.

Hope you all have a wonderful season!

:drinks:


Dear brother, may I please remind you that Yahshua kept all the feast days WITH his fellow Jews, as was his custom, and he came to restore Israel to its former when the Law was perfect and pure, and his mission and ministry was to RECOVER that which was lost, i.e., the simple keeping of the Tanakh. So if his custom was to do the things which the Jews were already doing, in other words, keeping the feast days according to their already established New Moon concept, which is born out in the text, then it was not any problem with the moon that was the issue: the problem was with the other Babylonian crap that they had ADDED to the Tanakh. Thus, Yahshua was more of a Karaite Jew than anything else, and his followers, the Nazarim, were also practicing Karaites too... If Yahshua met with a couple of followers on the road and expounded to them from "the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings" of all of the things concerning HIMSELF, then that means that Yahshua was concerned with the Tanakh as his text, which is what Karaites do to this day. Even a cursory glance at Matthew 23 proves that he was not here to abolish the Law of Moses, but he came to recover it completely from the Babylonianism of the Judaism of his day, including Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Zealots, etc.

I believe it was this very clash between Karaites and Pharisees that played out in Stephen's oration and martyrdom between the Jewish leaders in Acts 7.

:whistle:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:36 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
With the sliver begins the first day of the month of Tishri, and two weeks from now, I should be able to party hearty in my makeshift sukka, with the FULL MOON illuminating its full glory upon my family and my giddy heads...

Shalom Yom Teruah!

:yahoo:



I'm in agreement, and this is an important point that must be considered. If the Full moon is the renewed moon then the Hebrews left Egypt under a dark moon, and Sukkot is under a dark moon as well. Logically, it would makes much more sense the Hebrews had the light of the full moon when they left Egypt while it was still night, and that Sukkot and the wedding feast of the lamb be under a full moon.

Also a full-moon-is-renewed-moon scenario also means Trumpets under a full light moon, which doesn't fit with Yahushua's return at the "no man knows the day or the hour" colloquialism.

I wonder if Gideon's attack was under a dark moon, maybe it even happened at the Trumpets mo'ed. As we know, the account tells us they had trumpets and jars with lights in them. It was a surprise attack -- They blew the trumpets, then broke the jars to reveal the light within. The lights wouldn't be so impressive if it weren't night, and would be even more accentuated if there was complete darkness due to a dark moon. To the enemy camp, it would be complete darkness, the sudden erie blast of the trumpets, then light! This sounds like Yahushua's return -- at Trumpets, under complete darkness, then there's light!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Zeph. 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of tribulation and distress, a day of calamity and misery, a day of darkness and obscurity, a day of clouds and whirlwinds,

Darkness, clouds, wind...definitely NOT a clear night with a full moon.

If Tishri begins with a sliver of a moon, it would be easily shrouded, and very dark. The first sliver isn't very high in the sky, and sets rather quickly.

By the time Sukkot comes around, the moon is bright. She reflects the light of that which gives her, her light.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:16 pm 
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Toshav wrote:
the Hebrews had the light of the full moon when they left Egypt while it was still night


I use to think that too!

Exo 13:21 And יהוה went before them by day in a column of cloud to lead the way, and by night in a column of fire to give them light, so as to go by day and night.

Fire gave them the necessary light!

:s_yes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 pm 
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Toshav wrote:
Yahushua's return at the "no man knows the day or the hour" colloquialism.


I used to also employ those terms, thinking it may have to do with the sliver, but I think it means nobody will know the DAY nor the HOUR.

Mat 25:13 “Watch therefore, because you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Aḏam is coming,

Midnight?

Mat 25:6 “And at midnight a cry was heard, ‘See, the bridegroom is coming, go out to meet him!’

Full moon?

Pro 7:20 He hath taken a bag of money with him; He will come home at the full moon.

No one knows!

Mat 24:36 “But concerning that day and the hour no one knows, not even the messengers of the heavens, but My Father only.1 Footnote:1Mk. 13:32.

Mat 24:42 “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Master is coming.

:dunno:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:32 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:

By the time Sukkot comes around, the moon is bright.


Scripture for that?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:45 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:

Dear brother, may I please remind you that Yahshua kept all the feast days WITH his fellow Jews...


Luk 22:53-54 “While I was with you daily in the Set-apart Place, you did not lay hands on Me. But this is your hour and the authority of darkness.” And having seized Him, they led Him and brought Him to the house of the high priest. And Kĕpha was following at a distance.

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