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 Post subject: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:03 pm 
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I happened to go online to learn when Rosh Hashanna is this year and I see it listed as October. But I have the Torah Connect program on my cell phone and 119 ministries is sending out Rosh Hashanna greetings for TODAY. Can anybody fill me in on what's up with that?

I thought we were just going into Elul this month and I really like to take that month to think through the year and be ready for Rosh Hashanna. I hope 119 has made an error.

Geeze, I just found another site claiming it's on Sept. 24 this year lol! Wow...no wonder Y'shuah called it the day and the hour that no man knows lol!


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:35 am 
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WELLLLL...

My take is Karaite in that Rosh (Head) Hashanna (of the year) begins at Abib according to Torah:


Exodus 12King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,

2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.

12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.

13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.

21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.

22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.

23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the Lord will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.

26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as ye have said.

32 Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.

33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.

34 And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.

35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:

36 And the Lord gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.

37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.

38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

39 And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual.

40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt.

42 It is a night to be much observed unto the Lord for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the Lord to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations.

43 And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:

44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.

45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.

46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.

47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.

48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

50 Thus did all the children of Israel; as the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

51 And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the Lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:41 am 
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As usual, barley dispute again. Nehemiah the unbeliever is beginning now for the 6th month, others began the 7th at the sliver sighting. Us Chodesh folks are in the middle; 7th month (Yom Teruah) begins at the full moon for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Yeah, sure, but the real question she was asking was about ROSH HASHANNA... the head of the year, which, without dispute, is at Abib, wouldn't you agree?

Quit saying Nehemia is an unbeliever. He is a brother and I do not like you saying that about him. He CLEARLY believes in the same Almighty as do we, albeit without the fluff of Orthodoxy. At least he is a sliver man and not some farce full moon dogmatist...

:dirol:


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:

Quit saying Nehemia is an unbeliever. He is a brother and I do not like you saying that about him.


Okey-doke...I'll let Scripture speak on the issue...

1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of Elohim: Every spirit that confesses that יהושע Messiah has come in the flesh is of Elohim,

1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that יהושע Messiah has come in the flesh is not of Elohim. And this is the spirit of the anti-messiah which you heard is coming, and now is already in the world.

2Jn 1:7 Because many who are leading astray went out into the world who do not confess יהושע Messiah as come in the flesh. This one is he who is leading astray and the anti-messiah.

Wow...that's pretty clear...IF you can receive it.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Yeah, that's what churchies quote to "prove" that Jews are going to hell... nice. :good:

Except that your revisionist translation does not say יהושע but IESUS CHRISTOS, smacking of Romish rubbing... The enemy has tampered with the Text, no? To be clear, though, ALL of the scriptures were written to Jewish people, and we are engrafted into THEM, the cultivated olive tree, and the middle wall partition that was against us has been removed, and we are ALLOWED to join the family as FELLOW MEMBERS of the nation (Romans 11, Ephesians 2).

Of all the teachings I've ever seen or heard by Nehemiah Gordon, he has consistently stated that there is coming a Messiah, in the flesh, that will return us to Torah... His teaching on Matthew 23 makes it clear that he believes "Jesus" to be a Karaite rabbi, in contrast to the Talmudic Pharisees, and that, according to Gordon, he was prophesying a return to Torah. I, myself, can testify, having followed Mr. Gordon for a number of years now, and having listened to a myriad of teachings, you, sir, do not know what you are talking about. If you are trying to prove that he is not a JeeZeus-believing-Christian, then well done! However, if you have been paying attention enough at all, you will understand that it's the Roman-Grecko-Flavian-Fairietale that Nehemia Gordon refuses as false teaching, as do I.

By the way, all of the protestants were trying to divorce from Rome and be more like the Jews throughout the ages, you know, the ones who were pogromed and persecuted throughout the ages...

Yahuda forever.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:29 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Yeah, that's what churchies quote to "prove" that Jews are going to hell... nice. :good:


Wow, just because others miss the point of the verse (as you do), you feel you have to insert your 'going to hell' dogma to belittle what Johannon (a Jew) was stating? :dirol:

I can offer some facts, but you probably cannot receive them either...

1Ti 2:5 For there is one Elohim,1 and one Mediator between Elohim and men, the Man Messiah יהושע,

1Jn 2:23 No one denying the Son has the Father. The one confessing the Son has the Father as well.

How does your karaite measure up?

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:32 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
If you are trying to prove that he is not a JeeZeus-believing-Christian, then well done! However, if you have been paying attention enough at all, you will understand that it's the Roman-Grecko-Flavian-Fairietale that Nehemia Gordon refuses as false teaching, as do I.


Still not getting it. He refuses your version of Messiah also. He denies Messiah came. Period. End of story.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:40 pm 
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Ok..I'm referring to the Rosh Hashanna that occurs in the 7th month. Not Passover.

Why are some folks thinking it's in September, and not October?

I was really freaked out, thought I'd missed it!

Interesting discussion BTW.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
Ok..I'm referring to the Rosh Hashanna that occurs in the 7th month. Not Passover.

Why are some folks thinking it's in September, and not October?

I was really freaked out, thought I'd missed it!

Interesting discussion BTW.


It began as different folks disagreed with when the barley was abib, thus the month difference. Only jewish folks think rosh hashanna is in the 7th month, BTW....their 'civil' new year.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:03 am 
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temu wrote:
Texas Jon wrote:
Yeah, that's what churchies quote to "prove" that Jews are going to hell... nice. :good:


Wow, just because others miss the point of the verse (as you do), you feel you have to insert your 'going to hell' dogma to belittle what Johannon (a Jew) was stating? :dirol:

I can offer some facts, but you probably cannot receive them either...

1Ti 2:5 For there is one Elohim,1 and one Mediator between Elohim and men, the Man Messiah יהושע,

1Jn 2:23 No one denying the Son has the Father. The one confessing the Son has the Father as well.

How does your karaite measure up?


Sir, I'm not belittling John; it's pretty clear I said "churchies quote" it as their proof that Jews are going to hell. You quote it to prove to me that Nehemiah is an unbeliever, which is just like what churchies do. Now, historically, the idea of phantom appearances of prophets was not out the question, and it was popular among the Greeks and the Romans, as they were a very superstitious folk, the Gnostics shunning the material world to embrace the spiritual, and so many a false teaching sprang up in the first and second centuries, claiming "Jesus Christ" was a phantom, nothing more. It really does not connect to pin a verse out of context upon an entire people for what the Gnostics were doing in the first century -- which is what I tell my Baptist friends also when they try and "prove it" to me that Jews are unbelievers destined for perdition... which is mighty hilarious to me!

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Yeah, so unbelievers like Nehemiah "shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone," you're trying to twist out of it and say that's me inserting my "go to hell" DOGMA... I'm just trying to get a feeling for what exactly you ARE saying here... So folks like the J.W.s, are they "unbelievers"?

Here is how my KARAITE measures up, but you probably won't receive it:

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Yeah, since there is controversy over the identity and even the EXISTENCE of Jesus of Nazareth, the Gospel record, instead of it being all made up by the Romans to win over the hearts and minds of the Jews, and this so-called "New Testament" that puts Jews in the OLD covenant blood sacrifice category, and since throughout the ages, Jews have had a Roman-Grecko-Egyptian-Canaanite-Babylonian-Persian idol crammed down their throats to bow down and worship, and since they stand firm and do not acknowledge the heathen Saturn/Mithra/Apollo cult, I shall give them a pass on not believing in Jesus...

But they do believe in a coming Messiah King of Yahuda, so says Nehemia Gordon:

Let me start with my views on Jesus of Nazareth, or as he was known 2000 years ago, "Yeshua". Over the past few years I have gained a great respect for his teachings, but I have not embraced the Christian faith nor have I become a "Messianic Jew." I clearly state this in all of my presentations in order to avoid any possible confusion. I am, as I have been for over twenty years, a Karaite Jew, which means I believe the Tanakh ("Old Testament") to be the perfect word of God. As a Karaite Jew, I await the coming of an anointed King (in Hebrew: "Messiah") who will be a direct descendant of King David. I have no idea what his name will be and therefore I do not rule out the possibility that his name will be "Yeshua". Many Jews, and Karaites in particular, may vehemently disagree with me on this last point. All I can say is that when the anointed descendant of David reigns as a flesh and blood king over Israel, as promised in the Scriptures, we will all know his name as an accomplished fact.

He sounds like a believer to me... :dirol:


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:29 am 
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Judith1 wrote:
Ok..I'm referring to the Rosh Hashanna that occurs in the 7th month. Not Passover.

Why are some folks thinking it's in September, and not October?

I was really freaked out, thought I'd missed it!

Interesting discussion BTW.


Judith, just to be clear where I stand to you, the Orthodox Jews erroneously refer to it as "Rosh Hashanna," but not the Karaite Jews. To them it is only Yom Teruah (Feast of Shouts/Shofars). Rosh Hashanna literally means "head of the YEAR," and how could it be the head or New Year when it is the 7th Month? (This is one of the many differences between Orthodox and Karaite Jews). Thus, we require an accurate beginning of months in order to end up with the correct time of Yom Teruah / Yom Kippur / Succoth for the 7th Month.

The reason why some folks do it early is because they have also erroneously declared the barley in the bowl to be Abib enough to gather as a sheef wave offering, as well as "sighting" this farce full-moon-new-moon theory. Instead, folks like Nehemia Gordon, traveled throughout Israel searching for a field of barley that was ripe enough to gleen as a sheef, AND sight the New Moon SLIVER as Two Witnesses... which is how it's been done since Moses... So since they did NOT come up with a good example of Abib on the New Moon, they then declared it to be Adar... That is why early October is the TRUE time frame for the 7th Month festivals...

In contrast to the full moon folks, a waiting, watching, praying Karaite will look at the waning moon after it was full, count the days of its passing into darkness, and then anticipate to sight the sliver as the OBVIOUS new moon, since it's the first time to see it in the sky after it disappeared into darkness. No need for an Almanac, no need for NASA, just watch and pray and look up for the first sign...

:good:


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:50 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
I shall give them a pass on not believing in Jesus...


Very generous of you, however...

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Elohim is able to graft them in again.

Meantime, they have neither YHUH, nor YHUSHA...nor the Ruach...but rather:

Rom 11:7 What then? Yisra’ĕl has not obtained what it seeks, but the chosen did obtain it, and the rest were hardened.
Rom 11:8 As it has been written, “יהוה has given them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes not to see and ears not to hear, unto this day.”
Rom 11:9 Dawiḏ also says, “Let their table become for a snare, and for a trap, and for a stumbling-block and a recompense to them,
Rom 11:10 let their eyes be darkened, not to see, and bow down their back always.”

When he does come to truth, and I certainly desire he do so, he will be as one brought back from the DEAD:

Rom 11:15 For if their casting away is the restoration to favour of the world, what is their acceptance but life from the dead?

:drinks:

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:10 am 
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Interesting discussion forming over nehemiahs false 13th month declaration, putting those who follow him a month behind...

https://www.facebook.com/johan.koch.92/ ... 1593760512

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:16 pm 
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Yom Teruah (Feast of Shouts/Shofars) is the fall festival I'm referring to. Commonly known as Rosh Hashanna...which matters not to me, call it whatever y'all want lol!


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:35 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Judith, just to be clear where I stand to you, the Orthodox Jews erroneously refer to it as "Rosh Hashanna," but not the Karaite Jews.


Why do they call it that, and where do they get it from? I mean, I realize that modern day Hasidics tend to flock to the Talmud more than to Torah, but even the Talmud is a very OLD book. Surely much of what's written has passed down through the centuries until it was finally written down so that it wouldn't be forgotten again.

I also realize that many customs written in Talmud are in fact doctrines of men, and that Y'shuah criticized the man-made doctrines because it was more than people could bear. Y'shuah supported the teachings of Moses but nowhere in modern scripture do I find him criticizing when the Holy Days were celebrated.

I have to think that at some level, these people did have a good grasp on their religion despite the man made insertions, which is why I can't throw the whole thing out with the bath water. I have to think that the Jews know when the Holy Days are...they've been at it for thousands of years! How can we then walk through the door after a couple of years and say they have it all wrong????

Y'shuah celebrated these feasts on the days in which the nation held them. THAT counts for a whole lot more to me than what any of the other teachers might rationalize. Does that make sense?

I do my best (though I've failed a TON..going my own way) to follow Y'shuah. The other teachers have helped fill in some blanks for me, and that's good, but if their teachings contradict Y'shuah, then there's no point in listening to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:36 pm 
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Our family observed Yom Teruah a couple of days ago. Remember our discussion in March? I guess you can call it Cliffhanger Part Deux:

topic1352.html

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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:51 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:

The reason why some folks do it early is because they have also erroneously declared the barley in the bowl to be Abib enough to gather as a sheef wave offering, as well as "sighting" this farce full-moon-new-moon theory. Instead, folks like Nehemia Gordon, traveled throughout Israel searching for a field of barley that was ripe enough to gleen as a sheef, AND sight the New Moon SLIVER as Two Witnesses... which is how it's been done since Moses... So since they did NOT come up with a good example of Abib on the New Moon, they then declared it to be Adar... That is why early October is the TRUE time frame for the 7th Month festivals...



I guess it's all about who you believe:


…Either way, based on the reports from Solomon Meyer and Brian Convery, there were multiple fields of Aviv barley found. Solomon mentioned that one field of wild barley was about a half acre in size, and fully harvestable and parchable based on his inspection of the barley grains. A half acre of barley will produce many omers. Again, there was no "cherry picking" of Aviv stalks.

On the Zadok scale (if you know what that means) he said it was about an 8.5, which is the soft dough stage and capable of being parched. Brian Convery's report also tells us that there was plentiful barley, harvestable and parchable.

Now, one thing that can hasten the maturity of barley is being planted next to an asphalt road or next to large stones that can radiate the heat and hasten the ripening of the barley. The half-acre field discovered by Solomon Meyer was about 60 feet from the road, which is quite far enough.

Brian Convery likewise has this same awareness and does not look at barley that is close to artificial heat sources.

Both Solomon and Brian found fields that were harvestable with a sickle, and not simply picking out stalks here and there that looked mature. Entire swaths of barley could have been harvested by sickle.

Now, some believe that the harvestable barley needs to be within a day's journey (by donkey) to Jerusalem to qualify. Although I don't know that these locations were necessarily within a day's journey to Jerusalem, it can be certain that since these barley fields are "Aviv", the barley fields that are within a day's journey to Jerusalem will definitely be "aviv" by the time the day of firstfruits arrives 17 days later. Still, since camels can consistently travel at 10mph, it would have only been a 6 hour journey by camel, even faster by horseback if needed.

And so it would be possible for a person to take a sickle, harvest barley, and take it to Jerusalem within a day so that it could be waved by the priest as it says in this verse:

Deuteronomy 16:9-10 - "You shall count seven weeks for yourself; begin to count the seven weeks from the time you begin to put the sickle to the grain.
10 "Then you shall keep the Feast of Weeks to Yahweh your Mighty One with the tribute of a freewill offering from your hand, which you shall give as Yahweh your Mighty One blesses you.

The "sickle to the grain" is in reference to harvesting barley for the wave sheaf/omer offering.

In light of all this, I have all the evidence I need to determine that Aviv barley has indeed been found in Israel, and we can call it a new year. I don't know how we could see it any differently. The biblical criteria has indeed been met…



http://www.eliyah.com/newyear2016.html

_________________
-- Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Pslam 119:11 --


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:25 am 
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Judith1 wrote:
Texas Jon wrote:
Judith, just to be clear where I stand to you, the Orthodox Jews erroneously refer to it as "Rosh Hashanna," but not the Karaite Jews.


Why do they call it that, and where do they get it from? I mean, I realize that modern day Hasidics tend to flock to the Talmud more than to Torah, but even the Talmud is a very OLD book. Surely much of what's written has passed down through the centuries until it was finally written down so that it wouldn't be forgotten again.

I also realize that many customs written in Talmud are in fact doctrines of men, and that Y'shuah criticized the man-made doctrines because it was more than people could bear. Y'shuah supported the teachings of Moses but nowhere in modern scripture do I find him criticizing when the Holy Days were celebrated.

I have to think that at some level, these people did have a good grasp on their religion despite the man made insertions, which is why I can't throw the whole thing out with the bath water. I have to think that the Jews know when the Holy Days are...they've been at it for thousands of years! How can we then walk through the door after a couple of years and say they have it all wrong????

Y'shuah celebrated these feasts on the days in which the nation held them. THAT counts for a whole lot more to me than what any of the other teachers might rationalize. Does that make sense?

I do my best (though I've failed a TON..going my own way) to follow Y'shuah. The other teachers have helped fill in some blanks for me, and that's good, but if their teachings contradict Y'shuah, then there's no point in listening to them.


Agreed. Orthodox or Karaite, I will continually stand with the Jews, no matter the disagreements and differences, and I am also not willing to throw them out with the bathwater. Being Karaite means that I leave the man-made doctrines in the ditch and stick with Tanakh, but I love and revere even my Orthodox brothers and sisters...

I'm not about persecuting people for doing Rosh Hashanna, or Yom Teruah a month before me, or whether one guy says it's Abib and another guy doesn't...

I came to my decision after a long, inner trial, deep prayer, and a lot of listening and reading and weighing both sides... Too many Israelis stood on those same hills as Nehemiah Gordon and shook their heads as witnesses that it was NOT Abib, and that a leap year was called, the month of Adar. I sighed in agreement, and my whole family and I discussed whether we should or should not follow the Orthodox example, and due to the barley issue alone, we chose Adar. Peace unto you all who did not make that same decision...


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:36 am 
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Toshav wrote:
Our family observed Yom Teruah a couple of days ago. Remember our discussion in March? I guess you can call it Cliffhanger Part Deux:

topic1352.html


Shalom Yom Teruah!!! WooHOOO!!! :yahoo:

You and your family be blessed! YAVO!!! He is coming!!! :)

---

I see that you guys sighted the new moon sliver a couple of days ago, too... :good:
Now, yall are a month ahead, or else, we are a month behind... what evs...
At least we can all agree that we should be keeping the feasts... :)
Come YHWH, straighten us all out on the matter.
Let him who stands take head lest he fall...


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:11 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:51 am 
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I love that movie!


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:12 pm 
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Me too. I know they're just actors, but I'm always moved by this movie. I think these people have YHWH and his Ruach...


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:28 am 
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Judith1 wrote:
Ok..I'm referring to the Rosh Hashanna that occurs in the 7th month. Not Passover.

Why are some folks thinking it's in September, and not October?

I was really freaked out, thought I'd missed it!

Interesting discussion BTW.


The Pharisees with their carnal minds simply made a mess of scripture. They didn’t understand that the two harvests of humanity, what the spring and fall feasts represents, are mirror images of each other. Today, there is NO celebration of the first day of the first month; it is not a High Sabbath. It will, however, be in the Millennium.

They used Deuteronomy and Ezekiel’s prophecies to attempt to interpret what Moses recorded in Leviticus. As of now, the Adversary serves as the prince of this world…there is no celebration of the first day of the first month. However, there is a celebration of the first day of the 7th month, Rosh Hashanah, the reality in which we’ll see Christ Jesus as prince of this world when entering the Millennium as represented by the Feast of Booths, or Tabernacles. They (Pharisees) simply missed this change of authority.

It is the Deuteronomy Passover that is seen in Ezekiel’s prophecies about the Millennium:

Quote:
Thus says the Lord [YHWH]: In the first month, on the first day of the month, you shall take a bull from the herd without blemish, and purify the sanctuary. The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and the posts of the gate of the inner court. You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement for the temple.

In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, you shall celebrate the Feast of the Passover, and for seven days unleavened bread shall be eaten. On that day the prince shall provide for himself and all the people of the land a young bull for a sin offering. And on the seven days of the festival he shall provide as a burnt offering to [YHWH] seven young bulls and seven rams without blemish, on each of the seven days; and a male goat daily for a sin offering. And he shall provide as a grain offering an ephah for each bull, an ephah for each ram, and a hin of oil to each ephah.

In the seventh month, on the fifteenth day of the month and for the seven days of the feast, he shall make the same provision for sin offerings, burnt offerings, and grain offerings, and for the oil. (Ezek 45:18–25)


Note, that on the Passover—On that day the prince … —the prince doesn’t offer a lamb as the Passover sacrifice, but a bull shall be the prince and the people’s sin offering. Plus a bull shall be offered on the first day of the first month and on the seventh day of the first month, two days about which Moses is silent—

Returning to Ezekiel, who presents a new list of High Sabbaths that Israel will observe in the Millennium :

Quote:
Thus says the Lord GOD: In the first month, on the first day of the month [presently not a High Sabbath], you shall take a bull from the herd without blemish, and purify the sanctuary [this was done under Moses on Yom Kipporim]. The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and the posts of the gate of the inner court. You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement for the temple. [This seventh day of the first month was not before a High Sabbath; thus, in the Millennium, Trumpets and Atonement are replaced by two not previously observed days, the 1st and 7th days of the first month.]


Ezekiel’s list includes the Passover, and Tabernacles.

It should be also noted that the spring festival that accompanies the Passover is no longer called the Feast of Unleavened Bread; for that festival has been fulfilled by the seven endtime years of tribulation when all who would live lived without sin for seven years, with leavening representing sin. … In the Millennium, every person will be filled with spirit and thereby liberated from indwelling sin and death. Every person will be “unleavened”; so there is no need to eat the bread of affliction for a week. Nor is there any need for a “Day of Coverings,” Yom Kipporim; for every person will cover him or herself by his or her own obedience (belief of God).

The reality of the two High Sabbaths in the Feast of Unleavened Bread will have been fulfilled; the Feast of Weeks will have been fulfilled. The Kingdom will have been given to the Son of Man so the new year doesn’t symbolically begin halfway through the seven endtime years of tribulation when dominion over this world is taken from the Adversary and given to the Son of Man, but begins every year with the beginning of the year—and it is this simple reality that has been a stumbling block for many.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:46 pm 
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Quote:
The Pharisees with their carnal minds simply made a mess of scripture. They didn’t understand that the two harvests of humanity, what the spring and fall feasts represents, are mirror images of each other. Today, there is NO celebration of the first day of the first month; it is not a High Sabbath. It will, however, be in the Millennium.


Forehead smack! I couldda had a V-8! I see it! The 10 commandments are like that too. The first 5 super impose on the second five..or rather, they image them.

Thanks Ducks, and it's so good to see you! Your perspectives always tend to blow me out of the water with amazement, and study.

Thankyou!


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Judith,

that didn't exactly answer your question of Rosh Hashannah being observed in either September or October. The important thing about it all is to do what you believe, and when you believe it should be observed. It's the hypocrites who don't make it, not those who truly seek.

The most important thing in comprehending it all is to understand that a man doesn't marry his own body. He marries his bride. Right now, the church is the body of Christ. His body. Not Pharaoh's body, not George Bush's body. It's Christ's body, just as Adam was one with his body before Eve was taken from "within" him.

Christ is selecting His bride...no one else will appoint who He's to marry, no one will be a suitable helpmate other than His own body. Just as Adam couldn't find a suitable helpmate outside the garden, He had to be placed inside the garden for a suitable helpmate to be given to him. One that is "of" him that can reproduce him. It's set up to where many cannot accidentally observe the Sabbaths correctly. His body "will" do what He did. There are many who believe they have it right, there are a few who believe they have it correct but are not sure. Some don't care, and that's a shame. Most of humanity believes they're correct about what they believe, and don't even know about the High Sabbaths. And that's the way it should be for now. Eve was taken from Adam once he was placed inside the garden...not outside. There still is a little time left before He comes to set things straight.

Some will make it to the wedding feast who today don't have the law (feasts/festivals), (they are not His body, but are guests) but do exercise love for neighbor, brother, and even their enemies. Those who don't today have the law but exercise love for brother and neighbor will make it in the wheat harvest to the wedding feast as guests. So, the most important thing is to do what you believe and to not be a hypocrite.

In regards to the Holy Days being chiral in form, the First High Sabbath of the 7 day long Feast of Unleavened Bread precedes the 7 day festival of the spring feasts. The fall feasts have a 7 day feast with a High Sabbath following the 7 day feast. Mirror images. Between the feasts is the Atonement, which is a compression of the feasts into a single day. 7 days of unleavened bread (no leaven eaten) into a single day of NO eating and affliction.

The spring feasts are for His body, the barley harvest. The fall harvest are for those who attend the wedding feast, the wheat harvest. Both harvests are twice represented by the annual High Sabbaths: Trumpets and the Last Great Day—the second High Day of Unleavened Bread and the Feast of Weeks. The details of the early barley harvest are in the spring High Sabbaths. The details of the maincrop wheat harvest are in the fall High Sabbaths. And the annual High Sabbaths taken together represents the entirety of the plan of God.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:44 pm 
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Thanks again Duckman!

My personal preference is for the Fall Holy days to be in September simply because the Feast of Tabernacles is more enjoyable in better weather. But then, temporary dwellings aren't always pleasant and easy, are they?

In my heart, I do believe the sounding of the horns is in October this year. I always like to take this month of Elul for deep heart searching and cleaning out the closets of sins overlooked, and unforgiveness. It compares to searching the corners in the spring for leaven, doesn't it? I was pretty upset to think I'd missed it because it's akin to missing the coming of the KING! We never know which year he's coming and I'd be horrified with myself to get so wrapped up with the junk in the world, that I'd completely forget that the KING is coming!

It's been a very difficult year this year for many reasons.

Blessings!
J


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:17 pm 
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Well, I and family sighted the new moon last evening at the sunset... it was brilliant and spectacular, and we hooted and hollered and tooted our horns, if anybody was asking about the noise... Shalom Yom Teruah!


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:02 pm 
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I was at tislach(sp?) service that night. We blew horns,too :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rosh Hashanna 2016
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
I was at tislach(sp?) service that night. We blew horns,too :)


Woohoo! Yavo!!! :clapping: :good: :biggrin: :mrgreen: :drinks:


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