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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Anyone else following the cliffhanger of when Passover is this year?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:36 pm 
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Explain?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:18 pm 
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If you follow the aviv barley method, most thought there was NO WAY barley would reach aviv stage by the new moon this month, so Passover was generally believed by all to be in late April.

Turns out within the past two days, there has been wild aviv barley found in at least two locations:
http://abibofgod.com/resources/Abib+Report+Thursday+March+10+2016.pdf
-- right before the new moon (if you go by conjunction/first sliver)!

Incidentally -- if you think this is sufficient enough -- this means aviv barley method observers will coincide with equinox method observers this year.

Looks like rabbinical Judaism is sticking with an April Passover.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Some helpful links:


Support for aviv barley method:
http://www.setapartpeople.com/search-abib-barley-scriptural


Support for equinox method and opposition against barley method:
[url]http://www.torahcalendar.com/ORBITS.asp?HebrewDay=30&HebrewMonth=12&Year=2015
[/url]


Opposition against equinox method:
[url]http://www.nazareneisrael.org/articles/calendar/the-equinox-error-3-0/
[/url]


At present, I lean toward the barley method, but my mind can be changed!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Toshav wrote:

At present, I lean toward the barley method


Us too...we calculated the new year to be March 23...but then again, we are those crazy full moon (chodesh) people! :dirol:

HalleluYAH! The season is upon us!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:19 pm 
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temu wrote:
HalleluYAH! The season is upon us!



Praise Yah! Let us make ready!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:53 am 
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Wow! Thanks for letting us know...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:26 pm 
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I'd been searching my drugstore calendar for Passover in March, and thought that since it wasn't there, that perhaps this calendar maker just didn't care about the HOLY days. After reading your post Toshav, I looked on the April calendar, and there it was.

I was thinking it was this month, too...if the full moon is day 15 of the month, then the day before the full moon is the 14th day of the month. The Forcithia bushes are usually newly bloomed during Passover, and they are blooming right now!

I have to look at the link about the Barley...is it an edible variety? Is it the one that the Hebrews utilized? There are wild varieties of wheat too, but they aren't any good for eating, so would they even qualify?

Next question.

If we are to get rid of all leaven, why is it that wine is used during passover? Yeast is naturally found on grapes, and that's what causes it to become wine. Could there be something to this leaven thing that we've missed? Perhaps it only has to do with grains?

I've been studying a bit on how to make wine. I want to learn how. One of the things I've learned is that grapes are the only fruit that has all the ingredients and nutrients needed to make wine, like a perfect food! I thought that was an interesting tidbit.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:13 pm 
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Judaism simply misread the Passover covenant in Exodus with the Passover covenant made on the plains of Moab. Exodus has the Passover falling on the 14th while once in the promise land, the Passover changes to the 15th. Once expelled from the promise land, the nation needs a covering for it’s sin…and this covering can only be done on the 14th. of the first month. While in the promise land, no covering is needed…they were to live without sin..an unblemished lamb, live as the Passover, they were to live without sin so their would be no covering for transgressions. Of course they sinned, so they were thrown out of the promise land or expelled.

The symbolic meaning of the Passover changed from a covering (done on the 14th) to remembering the night the left Egypt (the night of the 15th...a memorial)

A marker had to be inscribed “feast of the Jews” to differentiate the difference in dates as to when Christ took the Passover with His disciples (on the 14th, as a covering for their sin), as opposed to when the Jews were keeping and had been keeping their Passover, and later becoming Judaism sacrifice, ending once and for all the marriage covenant made at Sinai.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:17 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
Next question.

If we are to get rid of all leaven, why is it that wine is used during passover? Yeast is naturally found on grapes, and that's what causes it to become wine. Could there be something to this leaven thing that we've missed? Perhaps it only has to do with grains?

I've been studying a bit on how to make wine. I want to learn how. One of the things I've learned is that grapes are the only fruit that has all the ingredients and nutrients needed to make wine, like a perfect food! I thought that was an interesting tidbit.


Hey Ms Judith :rose: How've you been?

As long as there’s sugar in the crushed grapes the yeast isn’t killed during the processing…they just go dormant. When oil and wine are mixed with flour…the resulting dough gets leavened by the wine, only softly though. The killing of the yeast comes by fire.

The dormant (not yet dead) yeast spores slightly leavens the dough when the wine is added, but is killed when passed through the oven or the fire of an oven, just as disciples are to be refined in fire. Christ took or bared the sins of Israel, and was roasted for their fiery sins. Though He was without sin there's a trace of sin in Him once He takes on Israels sin.

7 weeks later, two loaves are baked with leaven, one loaf represented the harvest of firstfruits, the Judean barley harvest. The other loaf represented the main crop wheat harvest that grows only until the Holy Spirit is poured out upon all flesh at a time to be determined. The counting of the period of 7 weeks should be anticipated as a husband waiting for his bride to finish her 7 day menstrual period or cycle.

Those who now keep the Passover on the 14th of the first month (the Elect) —have indwelling sin and death that is not counted against them, with this sin represented by the leavening that will be killed when these disciples receive glorified bodies and pass through the fire as in bread being baked.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:49 am 
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Hey, duckman. Nice to see you...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:39 am 
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Hey Jon.

Texas under water yet?

River's are overflowing here.. Went out to the bayou yesterday...a lot of water has passed under the bridge.

Peace to you.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:24 am 
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I just wanted to say we all need to be prayerful about this. The date of this year's Passover is contentious because some believe a couple locations aren't enough. All the rest of the barley in Israel is not ready yet.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:38 am 
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duckman2017 wrote:
Hey Jon.

Texas under water yet?

River's are overflowing here.. Went out to the bayou yesterday...a lot of water has passed under the bridge.

Peace to you.


Peace, brother. We are in a dry spell for now, but man, it's flooded out here! I just looked a the radar, and I see that ya'll are flooding currently all across Louisiana, green boxes of flash flooding... be safe, bro.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:43 am 
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I just don't see why there is any discrepancy here. Doesn't Torah say that the beginning of months are when the barley is in the bowl, and two weeks later is Passover? Somebody prove me wrong here...

So, they sight the barley in the bowl (ABIB), and two weeks later is the FULL MOON? Which just so happens to coincide with the VERNAL EQUINOX?

What's so wrong with that? I thought that the sun and moon and stars are all for signs and seasons, his MOEDIM... yes? Makes sense to me.... :dunno:

YHWH, show us the Way...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:13 am 
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Correction, the beginning of months (ABIB) is when the barley is in the ear, and the flax in the bowl...

Exodus 9:5 And the LORD appointed a set time, saying, To morrow the LORD shall do this thing in the land. 6 And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one [...] 31 And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled. 32 But the wheat and the rie were not smitten: for they were not grown up.

Exodus 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.


Thus, ABIB was sighted with the barley/flax, commencing the plagues upon Egypt, culminating in the final plague two weeks later... PESACH

SLIVER MOON with ABIB, then two weeks later... FULL MOON with PESACH... :good:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:34 am 
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Shared this with someone the other day when asked...

The aviv barley sets when the first month is determined. This way, Abba has total control over the situation...no predeterminations are possible; no calculated systems work.

What is the Aviv? According to Ex 9:31-32, it is a state of near-ripeness of the barley. When Egypt was pelted with the plague of hail, the barley was ripe enough to be destroyed, but the wheat and spelt, which ripen later, were not destroyed. The fact is that barley and wheat are both grasses, and go through a long period of development where they look like any green grass. If these plants are hit with hail at this early stage, they would simply grow back, but once the seeds in the plant have started to ripen, the plant would likely die if hit by a serious hail storm.

So, does barley have to be fully ripe in order to be considered Aviv? If we look at Lev. 2:14, we will get a clear answer to this question. This verse states that the bikkurim (firstfruits) offering can be brought either as Aviv parched in fire, or as crushed Carmel. There is a major clue here, because this verse offers the Israelite two options for bringing the firstfruits of his barley crop. You see, as it develops its grains, the barley plant first fills out each kernel with a watery substance, then gradually places more and more starch into each grain, so that as the grain ripens, it becomes harder and drier. When grain is fully ripe, it is hard and dry enough that it can be crushed into flour. If the grain is entirely unripe, then nothing but a hull would remain if parched in fire. If it is almost, but not quite ripe, it still has too much moisture content in order to be crushed into flour, and would rot if stored without having been further dried, but it still has enough starch in it that something would remain if the grain were to be parched in fire. No doubt, the Israelite farmer needed something of substance that he could bring as an offering. If his grain was fully ripe, he could simply crush it into flour and bring that. However, if it was not fully ripe, this verse gives him the option of parching it in fire and bringing that as his offering. So this is what the Torah calls Aviv: barley that is ripe enough to be offered as parched in fire, but still too moist to be crushed into flour as is.

:pardon:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:54 am 
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Yes, "barley in the ear" means that it is formed in its hull but not ripened; it is there to signify "the beginning of months," which coincides with the sliver. Thus, two weeks later, the barley will be ripened/dry enough as the "first fruits offering" after Passover at the full moon...

Texas Jon wrote:
Thus, ABIB was sighted with the barley/flax, commencing the plagues upon Egypt, culminating in the final plague two weeks later... PESACH

SLIVER MOON with ABIB, then two weeks later... FULL MOON with PESACH... :good:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Using the full moon, here are our dates:

3/ 23 -- Aviv 1 Happy New Year!

4/ 5 -- Pesach

4/ 6 -- Unleavened Bread

4/12 -- High Sabbath end of Unleavened Bread

5/ 29 -- Shavuot

9/ 16 -- Sighting the Seventh Moon

Sabbath, 9/ 17 -- Yom Teruah Day

9/ 26 -- Yom Kippurim

Sabbath, 10/ 1 -- Sukkot

Sabbath, 10/ 8 -- Shemini Atzaret

:drinks:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:18 pm 
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:drinks:

https://youtu.be/lS8RjCRolSM


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:10 pm 
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:dirol:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:24 pm 
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Nehemia is catching on...

"...the purpose of the Aviv Search, New Moon Sightings, and observance of the Appointed Times of Yehovah is not an end in itself. The purpose is to attain that spiritual bread and walk out our covenant relationship with Yehovah the best we can. If that leads to conflict with others who are genuinely trying their best to walk with our heavenly Father, then we need to push aside our pile of Gold Pandas and get back to praying for humility in dealing with our neighbors and the sojourners in our gates.

My prayer is that the Appointed Times of Yehovah will not be a source of doubt and division, but a healing to the souls of those who want to walk in fellowship with Avinu SheBashamayim..."

:s_yes

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:29 pm 
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I guess the best thing to do is maybe simply state why we do what we do. Others can read it and can digest or reject the information.

I could specifically state how and why I do the dates that I do, and it's very detailed. I won't list it at this time. However I think the spiritual concept behind the Passover and the significance of it should be expressed.

The Passover Covenant is about redeeming a firstborn son. It promises deliverance from bondage to this firstborn (an enslaved nation of God) from a prince or a king, and requires that a payment be made. It comes with the provision of penning, selecting and sacrificing a paschal lamb, and eating it.

Why didn’t God just steal his firstborn son (enslaved nation of Israel) from Pharaoh in Egypt? Why give lives of firstborns in exchange for your firstborn? Stealing is a sin. Lives are given in exchange for His firstborn…a ransom must be paid. Slaves must be purchased, not stolen. again, Stealing is a sin. All firstborns belong to the Lord to do as He pleases. One simple rule; consecrate (redeem by sacrifice) your firstborn son by selecting, sacrificing, roasting and eating the paschal lamb.

All this was mediated by Moses.

Once the temple of record was erected, Solomon's temple (physical temple with physical sacrifices) there were two large bronze pillars which stood (Boaz and Yakhin). The new year began with the first sighted new moon crescent seen at the temple following the spring equinox, with the equinox determined by the parallel alignment of shadows cast by the two bronze pillars. Neither the temple nor the pillars survived once Jerusalem (physical) was razed. When a remnant of Israel returned to Jerusalem to build for Cyrus a temple for the Lord, this remnant didn’t need two standing bronze pillars and their shadows to establish the calendar at Jerusalem. They could calculate when a new moon could be seen by learning to read the moon and solar phases from the Chaldean astronomers.

It must be noted that this Passover kept while in the promise land was observed on the 15th as a memorial of Israels exodus from Egypt.

When the record that counts swings to the spiritual, we have to look to Christ as to when He kept the Passover. If He was resurrected as the Wave Sheaf (my contention was that He was), then this date is known.

Christ, as the firstborn spiritual Son of the Most High, has to be consecrated. This consecration is what's known to us as the Passover...with Christ telling His disciples:

Luke 22:19

Quote:
19 And when he had taken some bread and given thanks (on the eve of Passover), He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This(Passover Dinner) is My body (Passover Lamb) which is given (sacrificed) for you; do this (keep Passover) in remembrance of Me."


All things physical of record come to end when Christ is crucified. A spiritual nation was born however on the fourth day of Unleavened Bread in the year of the crucifixion, which had Christ breath on 10 of His disciples present when He "breathed" on them and saying "receive the Holy Spirit".

But nothing can be changed once a testator is dead, so the Passover covenant made new occurred on the 14th of the first month. A new nation of Israel needs a sin offering again, with the sin offering only being available on the 14th, not the 15th.

I'll conclude this for now.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:59 pm 
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For the firstborn physical son to be freed from physical slavery, it needed to be redeemed by the Passover sacrifice.

For the firstborn spiritual son (Christ), to be freed from being a slave (when He took on the form of a slave..human form) He needed to be redeemed by the Passover sacrifice. His body (us as disciples) needs to be redeemed by the Passover sacrifice.

The Passover promises freedom from slavery. Israel didn't leave slavery or Egypt without being purchased. Christ and His body (us as disciples, the spiritual temple of record) does not "go to heaven" so to speak, or inherit the kingdom without being purchased.

This is the significance of the Passover. No escape from slavery for a firstborn physical son of YHWH without the Passover. No escape from this world (physical slavery) for the spiritual firstborn without the Passover. It's that cut and dry.

A man doesn't marry his own body. A separation has to be made.

Thought I should add this.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:38 am 
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Toshav wrote:
If you follow the aviv barley method, most thought there was NO WAY barley would reach aviv stage by the new moon this month, so Passover was generally believed by all to be in late April.

Turns out within the past two days, there has been wild aviv barley found in at least two locations:
http://abibofgod.com/resources/Abib+Report+Thursday+March+10+2016.pdf
-- right before the new moon (if you go by conjunction/first sliver)!

Incidentally -- if you think this is sufficient enough -- this means aviv barley method observers will coincide with equinox method observers this year.

Looks like rabbinical Judaism is sticking with an April Passover.


So yes or no? Is it Abib or no?

Nehemia has it NO: http://www.nehemiaswall.com/hebrew-voic ... r-of-faith


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:56 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Is it Abib or no?

Nehemia has it NO


Many believe Nehemia calls it too late...I do too.

http://www.eliyah.com/newyear2016.html

http://www.learnfromthebible.org/abib-2016-report.html

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:20 am 
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temu wrote:
Texas Jon wrote:
Is it Abib or no?

Nehemia has it NO


Many believe Nehemia calls it too late...I do too.

http://www.eliyah.com/newyear2016.html

http://www.learnfromthebible.org/abib-2016-report.html



And see, correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't Abib mean, "in the ear?" or "ear" itself? Why does it have to all be harvestable at the moment of its sighting? By my reckoning--and solely based upon OTHERS' accounts and pictures--but my eyes see "barley in the ear [bowl]" ... seems like Abib to me, which would make it ripe for the first fruits in two weeks...

Anybody else a little bit concerned by this? That would mean that the year 2016 by the Roman calendar is a LEAP YEAR, and so is the Hebrew calendar: adding a 13th month based upon a negative Abib sighting...

:shock:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:27 am 
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So you are in favor of an adar bet?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:31 am 
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temu wrote:
So you are in favor of an adar bet?


So you are accusing me of being in favor of an adar bet?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:35 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
temu wrote:
So you are in favor of an adar bet?


So you are accusing me of being in favor of an adar bet?


It was a question. Did you see the (?)?

From Joe Dumond:

" I have been in talks with Nehemiah discussing this and wrestling with the two seemly opposed views. Our private talks will remain private until I get permission to share them. I love Nehemiah. But I go by the barley being ready by wave sheaf day. "

http://sightedmoon.com/the-new-year-is-now-declared/

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