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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:51 am 
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I do not trust ANY calendar, Gregorian or Jewish... that is why I need two witnesses: the barley and the new moon. Nevertheless, I lean towards the mercy of YHWH because we are all STILL blindly trying to figure it out, and we are no man's judge who is at least attempting to find the Truth. Anybody who is seeking intently for the heart of the matter ends up looking and sounding a little crazy to some folks, especially those who would rather cling to their false paradigms and traditions than face the reality that the Creator longs after a people who will return to his perfect Way... I will stand as the craziest of us all if you want to put words in my mouth... :good:

By your website that you posted, the author states, "The other way is to look at the barley and to see if it will be ready for the wave sheaf day which is from 14 to 21 days after the 1st day of the month." http://sightedmoon.com/the-new-year-is-now-declared/ Where does he come up with that methodology?

I want to go back to my earlier question, though: Why does Nehemiah insist that the whole field must be harvestable in order for it to be considered ABIB?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:57 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:

Why does Nehemiah insist that the whole field must be harvestable in order for it to be considered ABIB?


I have no idea why he says that.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:58 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
if you want to put words in my mouth...


Huh? What are you talking about? :dunno:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:01 am 
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I contend that Rome is the 4th Beast of Daniel 7, and the emperors/popes, especially Constantine, are the "little horn who boasts against the Most High," i.e.:

“From henceforth the vernal equinox and not the Jewish calendar should determine the incidence of Easter. That when the equinoctial full moon fell on a Sunday, Easter should be celebrated on the Sunday following; both for the reason already given, and because the Jewish festival would have been celebrated and over. Also, by making Easter, by necessity, subsequent to the vernal equinox, there was no longer a danger of double observance in the same year” (Constantine to Council of Nicea).

So, apparently , the "Jewish calendar" of Constantine's time was proving the celebration of Pesach to be EARLIER than the Roman Vernal Equinox... however, this year, the Vernal Equinox happens simultaneously with the full moon this month.

:whistle:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:13 am 
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I have no idea what you are trying to say at this point. :s_dunno

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:21 am 
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temu wrote:
I have no idea what you are trying to say at this point. :s_dunno


Why? Seems like I'm making some pretty clear points.

1. I don't want to stand with Rome: Easter/sun worship, etc.
2. I want to keep the feast of Pesach in the most ancient way.

What's the problem?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:24 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
temu wrote:
I have no idea what you are trying to say at this point. :s_dunno


Why? Seems like I'm making some pretty clear points.

1. I don't want to stand with Rome: Easter/sun worship, etc.
2. I want to keep the feast of Pesach in the most ancient way.

What's the problem?


OK...guess we are the same page then. I thought we were discussing why Nehemiah needs a whole field declared and how I was putting words in your mouth.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:26 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Why does Nehemiah insist that the whole field must be harvestable in order for it to be considered ABIB?


As for this, I'd have to ask Nehemiah how they were able to this in the wilderness. Didn't Nehemiah declare and adar bet?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:41 am 
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temu wrote:
Texas Jon wrote:
Why does Nehemiah insist that the whole field must be harvestable in order for it to be considered ABIB?


As for this, I'd have to ask Nehemiah how they were able to this in the wilderness. Didn't Nehemiah declare and adar bet?


Yes, he did. I'm not sure if I agree or not...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:38 pm 
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Catholicism has taught for centuries that Easter is figured on the first Sunday of full moon following the vernal equinox. Unless the first Sunday is a full moon, then it's considered a Paschal full moon, then Easter would be figured the following Sunday.

This method has been used since the times of ancient if figuring the resurrection of tammuz...nothing new here. 40 days precedes the fasting, with the Tuesday before the fast being today known as carnival or Mardi Gras as we have it today. Easter bunnies and colored eggs has always been a part of this tradition. Absolutely nothing has changed except inserting Jesus into it.

The Jewish calculated calendar came into existence after John had his revelation. Israel had figured the first new moon sighting following the vernal equinox as the beginning of months, then counted 14 days to keep Passover. This information unfortunately was lost when the temple was destroyed, but was passed orally down through generations. The calculated calendar of rabbinical Judaism, following in the footstep of the ancient house of Judah, is not scriptural. It is not part of the oracles of God entrusted to the Jews (Rom 3:2).

In the year of Christs' crucifixion, we can see that He followed the Sadducee's manner or method of figuring Passover.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:54 pm 
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What is an adar bet?

Since I don't live in Israel, I don't have their spring growth going on here. I just know that when Passover is a regular one, what's typically growing in my local. And I know that an ''oddball'' year happens from time to time when it seems that the rabinic Passover seems to be a month late.

Now, this year, all of nature seems to be running a bit early. Even our dogs are going into heat early, spring itself is early, and everything in the ground says it's time.

Now we learn that the wild Barley says it's time, the moon says it's time, and in my heart I thought it was time, too! Can we call all of these various things 'witnesses'? There is certainly more than one witness.

The reason I asked about the grapes is because they contain their own yeast, yet this fermented yeast product is permissible while fermented grain (bread) is not. Well, yeast is killed in bread by baking too!
The rising of the bread is merely evidence that the yeast exists/existed. Even if you flattned out the bread and coooked it, like wine, the yeast is dead, but still present.

Now, I know we tend not to go by rabbinic rules, and I agree/understand the basic theories behind it. HOWEVER, these guys had some pretty interesting discussions!

At one point years ago, a rabbi was talking about how he was going to have to cleanse his liquor cabinet of wiskey...a fermented grain. Another woman talked about how certain grains were forbidden during Pesach, had to be disposed of, and replaced with the new grains. I don't remember it all, but it seems that the grain and yeast are issues. That's the lowest level of things of course, the spiritual implications being much more significant, the physical acts as an object lesson.

Not only did they cleanse their homes of hidden leaven, they also baked their dishes, or threw them away and got new ones which implies that harmful things can live where you don't expect it. Apparently soaking your cookware in chlorox just isn't enough lol! One of the Messianic Synogaugs reccomends replacing all cookware, and if that's not in your financial equation, get rid of all plastic, replace it, and bake everything else in the oven at x temp for x time.

Sometimes I feel so discouraged because it seems that it's a struggle and a burden that I have difficulty keeping up with, mostly because I really don't know what Yah truly wants of us, and how to accomplish his will, today.

I do the best I can with washing and cleaning, and preparing the right foods at the right times because I want to meet with Yah on his moedim! So this up in the air stuff really, truly, tires my mind, my body, and my spirit.

In a way it's a bit scary because when stuff is right with Yah, he makes his will known, and makes it possible for his people to carry out his commands, which is a blessing. But as time goes on, it's harder and harder in the world to do these things. That difficulty is NOT a blessing! It's more like a time of fasting or judgement. Sigh...

Every man does what is right in his own eyes is a hallmark of these end times. We sure do need to pay, don't we?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Duckman, I am VERY glad to see you!! Thanks for the shout out!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:52 am 
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On the ancient Judean hillsides, the hard barely represented the firstfruits of God...watered by the early and later rains....was gathered into barns over a seven week period between the Wave Sheaf Offering and the Feast of Weeks, these seven weeks—like the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread—representing a period of specific years that will amount to the tribulation, with the harvest becoming heavier as the counting of weeks advances seven days at a time, the harvesters working six days then resting on the seventh; resting on the forty-ninth day, the day before two loaves of bread made from new grain, beaten fine, and baked with leavening are waved before God, the baking process having killed the leavening [yeast].

The seven annual High Sabbaths of God represent the plan of God which incorporates two harvests of humanity as if people were grain … the firstfruits of God are represented by the early barley harvest of ancient Israel’s hillsides, whereas the majority of humanity—most every person who has ever lived— is represented by the main crop wheat harvest.


The harvests of God are seen in type as the early and latter grain harvests of Judean hillsides, with the harvest of firstfruits not to begin before a sheaf of the firstfruits is waved before the Lord. “‘On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it’” (Lev 23:11) … but what day is the day after the Sabbath?

John writes about Christ, , , , —Therefore the Jews, since preparation [day it]was, that may not stay upon the stake the bodies during the Sabbath, was for great the day of that Sabbath(19:31) … John holds that the 15thof Abib, the first High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, was the great day of that Sabbath, thereby making all of the Feast “Sabbath.” And on this particular Sabbath, the resurrected Jesus would ascend to the Father mid-week.

The first hand full of barley waived before YHWH represents Christ, accepted as is. The two loaves at the feast of weeks requires that the grain harvest is thrashed and ground, baked with leaven and passed through the fire of an oven. The grain harvest simply typify the to harvest of mankind with the first handful of barley waved before God before the harvest of disciples can be accepted.

The holy day calendar—the High Sabbaths of the Lord—represent one harvest of humanity that has within the calendar two separate harvests, the spring harvest of firstfruits (the barley harvest of ancient Judea) and the autumn main-crop wheat harvest, with the spring holy days representing the entirety of the holy day calendar and with the autumn holy days also representing the entirety of this calendar, disclosing in the calendar what is revealed in John’s vision [the Book of Revelation], a resurrection to life at both the beginning of the Thousand Years and a resurrection to life at the end of the Thousand Years of the Son of Man’s reign over living creatures:

Quote:
Then I [John] saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. (Rev 20:1–6)


and

Quote:
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison …. . Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. From His presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. [This resurrection is of souls and occurs outside of the physical creation.] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:7, 11–15)


What's being talked about here is the resurrections of humanity to be either harvested with the chaff being thrown into the fire. Chaff of the grain is simply a covering...an outer shell (or better human flesh). It is not the grain (spirit); it holds no weight..which explains the trashing process. Throw the grain in the air with a good wind blowing and the chaff is separated, being carried off away from the grain which simply falls straight down as a plumb line. Once the grain is readied for baking, the shell or covering is not needed, but burns really good in a fire.

One of my friends wrote this to me back several years ago.

Quote:
For rabbinical Judaism, Aviv is but isn’t the first month of the year; for the second
Sinai covenant has the Feast of Ingathering occurring at year’s end (Ex 34:22), placing
the Fall feasts of the seventh month at the end of the harvest year, taken by rabbinical
Judaism to mean that there is a civil year, as opposed to the sacred year, that ends with
the Feast of Trumpets. Rabbinical Judaism changes the calendar year with Trumpets;
hence, Judaism’s calculated calendar must be used with caution, for when the year
begins with Trumpets, insertion of the 13th month [Adar II or Vedar] is placed in the
wrong year. For example, rabbinical Judaism will place Adar II in the year beginning in
the fall of 2010; whereas on the calendar that begins in the spring with the first sighted
new moon crescent following the equinox, Adar II was added to the year concluding in
spring 2010. Therefore, the Feast of Dedication [beginning the 25th of Kislev] didn’t
begin on December 2nd, 2010, but will begin on January 1st, 2011. And this month
differential comes into play the year of Jesus’ crucifixion.

The calculated calendar that rabbinical Judaism presently uses to prevent Jews from ever even accidently taking the Passover as Moses commanded came into existence by the time Maimonides compiled the Mishneh Torahin the 12thCentury … the Apostle Paul died more than a millennium before the calendar of truly unfaithful Israel came into existence; so it cannot be logically or intelligently said that the calculated calendar is an oracle of God entrusted to the Jews.


The equinox means "equal nights". If the full moon is counted before the equinox then you'll end up with Judaism calendar of having a civil year...in some years. If the full moon is figured following the equinox, then you'll be honoring the resurrection of Tammuz. I can't see it explained any easier than this...that if the solar cycle begins at the equinox, then the days are equal in length...and the next time the days are equal in length again, it will be this same period in time the following year. This takes a year to happen, and happens only once. At no other period in a year are the days equal in length. So, a year has to begin following the equinox, not before. A month can be called Abib all we want at any given date but if it's figured before the equinox, then you'll almost always have irreconcilable feast dates. A first new moon sighting following the equinox will give you a full moon 14 days later during abib.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:15 pm 
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Duckie, that means you support the April passover this year?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:23 pm 
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Judith....

For this year, that is correct.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:50 pm 
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Ok, let me throw another dumb question out there. I'm not even sure how to ask it. is't there a difference between the calendar equinox and the actual one? There's a wording for that, and it just won't come to me right now. Do you know what I mean?

In your post above you state that "If the full moon is figured following the equinox, then you'll be honoring the resurrection of Tammuz."

I'sn't that what we'd be doing if we wait till next month for passover? Maybe I misunderstood.

I would prefer next month for passover because I'm sick right now, and don't have the energy to prepare my house. It would be much more convenient for me. But the calendar says next month for passover this year...isn't that according to the Judaism calendar that you seem to be saying is wrong for this year?

I'm confused...why would i want to honor tammuz?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
Ok, let me throw another dumb question out there. I'm not even sure how to ask it. is't there a difference between the calendar equinox and the actual one? There's a wording for that, and it just won't come to me right now. Do you know what I mean?

In your post above you state that "If the full moon is figured following the equinox, then you'll be honoring the resurrection of Tammuz."

I'sn't that what we'd be doing if we wait till next month for passover? Maybe I misunderstood.

I would prefer next month for passover because I'm sick right now, and don't have the energy to prepare my house. It would be much more convenient for me. But the calendar says next month for passover this year...isn't that according to the Judaism calendar that you seem to be saying is wrong for this year?

I'm confused...why would i want to honor tammuz?



What it comes down to is this:

If you calculate by equinox method (like Todd Bennett does), Passover is in March.

If you calculate by aviv barley method and accept that a small sample of first barley (enough for a wave sheaf) is sufficient, Passover is in March.

If you calculate by aviv barley method and think the barley must be ripe in most of Israel, Passover is in April.

If you calculate Easter to be the first Sunday following the first full moon that occurs on or after the equinox, you are Romish and need prayer. :wacko:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Judith..Toshav is correct.

The first Sunday following the full moon...following the vernal equinox would be resurrection Sunday.. This method has been used to calculate Easter Sunday for thousands and thousands of years. The resurrection on this first Sunday following the full moon after the equinox always had bunnies and colored eggs. This same celebration continues today for greater Christiandom. They call it resurrection Sunday because Jesus was resurrected on this day they say, this day being a Sunday.

But in that year the equinox was just occurring while the new moon was becoming visible, nearly at the same exact time. I have the details.

The first Sunday following the full moon really doesn't have anything to do with the Passover for greater Christianity.

Now, the first sighting of the NEW moon....following the equinox will be the beginning of months, then 14 days later will be the Passover.

The Wave Sheaf does not fall on the same date every year. The Passover for a covering is always on the 14th. The Passover as a memorial IN the promise land is on the 15th. Once inside the promise land, Israel was to "live sinless" essentially to live as the Passover lamb, the reason for the Passover day being the 15th. Once grace ends (the Passover covenant hasn't ended yet) then for 7 years according to Ezekiel, the Passover will return to the 15th for 1260 days. Once in the millennium, animal sacrifices return, and again for a thousand years the Passover will be on the 14th.

The 10th day of the month is the day of selection. The Wave Sheaf is not on a numbered day but is always on the first day of the week...the day after the Sabbath:

Quote:
“‘When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before [YHWH], so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it — Lev 23:10–11)



If Christ was resurrected as the Wave Sheaf, then it would have to had been on the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath. This is the model that I follow. I would argue that there's only one year that He could have been resurrected, but I truly don't think it should be argued.

Ancient scripture was written in Hebrew style poetry, meaning that the physical precedes the spiritual, in Hebrew poetics, the first line of a thought-couplet contains the physical presentation of a concept, while the second line of the thought-couplet contains the spiritual presentation of the same concept. This is lost through translations. The creation account if tried to be read literally will have a reader thinking that the author is bipolar. “Jerusalem” the “temple” and “Passover” of record changes from physical to spiritual. The Passover covenant mediated by Moses pertained to all things physical. The Passover covenant mediated by Christ pertains to all things spiritual.

If you read the Genesis account as Hebrew poetry, this is the only way it makes sense. The Genesis "P" account.

I'm going work out with one of my sons right now but I'll show you what I mean about the Genesis account showing this reality.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Judith just a quick note...

The equinox only happens once a year, it's when the nights are equal in length. The equinox is on March 20th, with the full moon being on the 23 of March. Not this Sunday but next will be the first Sunday after the full moon, which will be Easter Sunday with pretty little girls in their beautiful dresses chases butterflies and pretty little colored eggs.

The first NEW moon following the equinox will have me keeping the Passover on April 22nd. with the Wave Sheaf being the day after the weekly Sabbath.

Christianity should not be doing Easter but should be honoring Christ as the Wave Sheaf, the first handful of barley waived and accepted by the Most High.

The big problem is that in the year He was accepted as the Wave Sheaf, it fell on Easter Sunday, in the year that He was crucified. This battle had waged for a few centuries following, with the Passover finally being thrown out (because it was too Jewish) in exchange for Easter, the new Emperors religion. See the Quartodeciman controversy.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:05 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
Ok, let me throw another dumb question out there. I'm not even sure how to ask it. is't there a difference between the calendar equinox and the actual one? There's a wording for that, and it just won't come to me right now. Do you know what I mean?


Ok, I see where the confusion is coming from. The Vernal or spring equinox occurs in 2016 on March 19th, tomorrow night at 11:30 pm in our hemisphere. After tomorrow night (Saturday), look for the first sighting of the new moon. You can find the moon tables by googling them. After the new moon set or moon set, the moon has to be at least 12 hours old to be seen. Once it's visible, count 14 days and this will give you an April 22nd. Passover date.

It happens to fall on the same date as the Passover set by Judaism's calculated calendar for this year. Judaism's calendar wasn't in existence until after the razing of the temple in 70 CE. If you use Judaism's calculated calendar to figure the Passover in the year that Christ was crucified, this date appears on rabbinical Judaism’s calculated calendar as the 14th day of Iyyar, the second month, which through the reality that cast His shadow as the Passover will have Judaism’s calendar off a month approximately one of three years, the nature of the error coming through when the calculated calendar begins and when the month of Veadar is added as discussed earlier about a civil year.

So, every few years the Passover dates align for the way that the Sadducee's had used by the two bronze pillars of Solomon's temple by using the shadow alignment cast by the equinox, and fall on the same date every few years as figured by rabbinical Judaism.

Quote:
In your post above you state that "If the full moon is figured following the equinox, then you'll be honoring the resurrection of Tammuz."


I'm so used to dealing with Catholic Christians here who ask about the importance of the Passover, and want to know about Easter egss and bunnies, and what they have to do with Jesus. It can be easily pointed out as to where the confusion came into play, but not easily accepted by most. No, as Toshav stated, if we look for the full moon to observe a resurrection following the equinox, then this is when Tammuz supposedly resurrected, and not much counseling can help that. The NEW moon has to be spotted first. I might not have made that clear.

Quote:
I'sn't that what we'd be doing if we wait till next month for passover? Maybe I misunderstood. But the calendar says next month for passover this year...isn't that according to the Judaism calendar that you seem to be saying is wrong for this year?


I see the confusion. But up above you can see where the Passovers align themselves every few years. Most of the Churches of God use rabbinical Judaism's method of calculating the Passover, and there's great confusion as to how Christ could have taken the Passover on the 14th and the next day be the Passover for the Jews the next, or on the day portion.

To this day, the majority of Christians equate keeping the Passover on the day and hour of when Second Temple Pharisees (rather than Sadducees) kept the Passover.

Jesus both ate the Passover as Israel under Moses in Egypt ate the Passover on the dark portion of the 14th day, and was the Passover Lamb of God, sacrificed at the hour when Pharisees sacrificed the Passover during the light portion of the 14th day of the first month, with Pharisees and Sadducees observing the Wave Sheaf Offering on a differing day-after-the-Sabbath, Pharisees on the fixed calendar date of the 16th day of the first month and Sadducees on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath during the Feast of Unleavened Bread … since the days of Rehoboam and Jeroboam, Judaism has not been an ideology with a unified theology or even a unified calendar.

Judaism keeps the Wave Sheaf on a fixed calendar date (the 16th) as opposed to how first century Sadducee's were keeping it. Judaism keeps this fixed date by mis-reading Joshua.

The morrow or morning after when the Passover would have been eaten—Joshua knew when the Passover was eaten in Egypt—is the day portion of the 14th, the day when Israel in Egypt had spoiled the Egyptians. Israel left Egypt after spoiling the nation, after the firstborn of Egypt had been slain. Israel did not leave Egypt the night the nation ate the Passover, but the following night; for no Israelite was to leave their house the night the Passover was eaten. The nation didn’t leave until the following night, the dark portion of the 15th, the first High Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. And manna stopped coming on the 15thof Abib, not on the 16th. And no Wave Sheaf Offering was needed for the children of Israel to eat stored grain that they had not grown or harvested.

Quote:
I'm confused...why would i want to honor tammuz?


By asking that question, you're not confused (: It's the many who do not ask, and blindly honor him by dying their eggs and having Easter hunts by setting this date by spotting the first full moon following the equinox, then waiting until the first Sunday to honor the resurrection. The first Christians, or converts (Sadducee's) would have seemed to use this method but it was missed by the Pagans (other converts) that there would have been a new moon sighting first, the on the morrow after the sabbath (always a sunday) Christ as the first handful of barley would have been waved before the Most High as the first of firstfruits.

We should wonder what happened to the Sadducee's after Calvary...the seemed to have disappeared into the flotsam of history in Judea in the first century, and are gone from Jerusalem before the rebellion of 66-70 CE. The zealot Pharisee's would have killed them if they would have stayed. it might be that Jews who converted to Christianity were primarily Sadducees; for to them, Jesus and his disciples would have correctly understood Scripture. The guy's home to which the Christ approached and said they would keep the Passover in his home didn't say "well, you're a day early". He apparently was a Sadducee who was accustomed to keeping the Passover on the 14th.

My apologies for the confusion..


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:57 am 
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It is what it is, which is Rosh Chodesh Adar Bet, a thirteenth month; the sighting of barley in Abib was sparse and not enough to harvest, and certainly not enough to be considered a sheaf for the wave offering. Thus, Abib will be at the sighting of the next new moon, according to:

Lev 23:10 When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the YHWH.

For me and my house, Pesach will fall on the full moon of April 22, 2016. Shalom. :rose:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:58 am 
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Toshav wrote:
If you calculate Easter to be the first Sunday following the first full moon that occurs on or after the equinox, you are Romish and need prayer. :wacko:


Hear, hear. :good:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:58 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
It is what it is, which is Rosh Chodesh Adar Bet, a thirteenth month; the sighting of barley in Abib was sparse and not enough to harvest, and certainly not enough to be considered a sheaf for the wave offering. Thus, Abib will be at the sighting of the next new moon, according to:

Lev 23:10 When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the YHWH.

For me and my house, Pesach will fall on the full moon of April 22, 2016. Shalom. :rose:




That's a good point, TJ… but as soon as you cut something ripe, that's a harvest, no matter how much there is. You may not have harvested all your crop, but you did harvest. So I guess the questions are: a) is there enough for a sheaf? b) does there need to be enough ready for every who wants to offer a sheaf to be able to?

Just out of curiousity, how do know there's not enough for a sheaf? Or are you saying if everyone in Israel were to offer a sheaf, they wouldn't be able to because most is not ready?




I just thought of something as well… using the possible symbolism of one group of people being Yah's barley harvest and others being His wheat harvest… and maybe this is a bit of a stretch:

Perhaps only Yah's wild barley is ready (Yah's wild branch!), and the cultivated barley (Yah's cultivated branches) are NOT ready, but will be soon.

Are we wild barley?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:26 pm 
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OK. I'm reading the instructions in the Torah and it reads as this:

Leviticus 23:10-11
Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, "When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest. He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it."

THIS is the question: Is that a collective offering of a wave sheaf, as in one for all of Israel? Or did everyone bring one? If everyone brought one, that poor priest would be waving his arm off continuously! lol! A million potential waves! LOl.

At this point, I'm thinking the priest made one wave offering on first fruits… That means only one sheaf needed… Your opinion, friends?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:46 pm 
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Toshav wrote:

THIS is the question: Is that a collective offering of a wave sheaf, as in one for all of Israel? Or did everyone bring one? If everyone brought one, that poor priest would be waving his arm off continuously! lol! A million potential waves! LOl.

At this point, I'm thinking the priest made one wave offering on first fruits… That means only one sheaf needed… Your opinion, friends?


Israel in Egypt, collectively as a whole, formed a single nation of Israel, being the firstborn natural son of YHWH. This nation (firstborn son) had to be purchased. Slaves have to be purchased, not stolen since i'ts a sin that breaks the commandment to not steal. This is the sole reason behind the Passover covenant. It promises deliverance from bondage for an enslaved nation of God for the simple condition of selecting, sacrificing, roasting and eating the paschal lamb on the condition that you consecrate (redeem by sacrifice) your firstborns. All firstborns belong to the Lord to do as He pleases.

The firstborn spiritual Son is the head of...:

Quote:
“I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, ....” (1 Cor 11:3)


His body (to which He is the head of):

Quote:
27Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 1 Cor. 12:27


His body consist of many members, yet forms a single body. His body, to which He is the head. The barely waved to be accepted in the year of the crucifixion was already accepted. His body (us, those who keep the Passover and accept Christ as our Passover sacrifice which redeems us from this physical world) are already accepted, as "one" collective body.

A man doesn't marry his own body, but will marry his bride. A separation has to occur.

The Son inherits the kingdom as primogeniture. This Son needs a wife...He won't marry His own body. A split has to occur for the Second Adam just as a split occurred for the first Adam in the garden. Before Eve was taken from his side, while he walked in the garden...she was part of him..was "in" him before she was separate from him. Before heirs could come, there needed to be a split, Eve needed to be taken from his side. While Eve was "one" with Adam, no heirs could come, he couldn't marry his own body.

The second High Sabbath at the end of Unleavened Bread will be this wedding feast. As for now, his disciples in this world are "His body" to which the sheaf waved over 2000 years ago was accepted. A separation is fixing to occur really soon for the Second Adam.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:56 pm 
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Toshav wrote:

At this point, I'm thinking the priest made one wave offering on first fruits… That means only one sheaf needed… Your opinion, friends?


Yeah...sure wouldn't take a fully ripe field as Nehemiah Gordon wants ...and add another month. Which begs the question, does Scripture even mention or infer another month added? Not that I have found. Additionally, when in the wilderness journey in the desert, I bet barley was plenty scarce...probably didn't stumble across any fields, that's for sure! :nea:

Can you imagine the pressure the priests would be under by the farmers? These guys would want to get the sickle to the grain ASAP!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:11 pm 
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temu I believe you are correct in saying that barley would have been pretty scarce in the wilderness...in fact, I don't believe there was a wave sheaf offering until after they crossed the river to enter the promise land. If Christ is the reality of the wave sheaf and "the heavens" or "heavenly life" is the reality of the promise land, then no sheaf would have been waved for Israel while in the wilderness....Israel would not be accepted until after in the promise land..

Quote:
“‘Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest’” (Lev 23:10) …


Manna (bread from heaven) stopped coming on the 15th of Abib, not on the 16th. And no Wave Sheaf Offering was needed for the children of Israel to eat stored grain that they had not grown or harvested.

Many people for too long to assume that the produce the children of Israel ate when manna stopped coming was new grain for which a Wave Sheaf Offering had to occur before it could be eaten. The old or stored harvest of which Israel ate on the morrow after the Passover was not a harvest that the children of Israel reaped. When or even if Israel ate of the new grain harvest before Jericho fell is not recorded.

The book of Joshua, however, does add some confusion to this, and this is where rabbinical Judaism goes to get the 16th of the month fixed date wave sheaf. I understand some accept this, but I simply don't..

peace..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Toshav wrote:
Texas Jon wrote:
It is what it is, which is Rosh Chodesh Adar Bet, a thirteenth month; the sighting of barley in Abib was sparse and not enough to harvest, and certainly not enough to be considered a sheaf for the wave offering. Thus, Abib will be at the sighting of the next new moon, according to:

Lev 23:10 When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the YHWH.

For me and my house, Pesach will fall on the full moon of April 22, 2016. Shalom. :rose:




That's a good point, TJ… but as soon as you cut something ripe, that's a harvest, no matter how much there is. You may not have harvested all your crop, but you did harvest. So I guess the questions are: a) is there enough for a sheaf? b) does there need to be enough ready for every who wants to offer a sheaf to be able to?

Just out of curiousity, how do know there's not enough for a sheaf? Or are you saying if everyone in Israel were to offer a sheaf, they wouldn't be able to because most is not ready?




I just thought of something as well… using the possible symbolism of one group of people being Yah's barley harvest and others being His wheat harvest… and maybe this is a bit of a stretch:

Perhaps only Yah's wild barley is ready (Yah's wild branch!), and the cultivated barley (Yah's cultivated branches) are NOT ready, but will be soon.

Are we wild barley?


A sheaf is a harvested bundle; it is the FIRST offering unto YHWH from ALL the bundles harvested... it is when you have enough for a harvestable bundle of barley that you have Abib, PLUS the sighting of the new moon SLIVER. There has to be a time of waiting for the barley to be in the bowl, a parchable-by-fire bundle of the grains, AND it has to coincide with the New Moon, which is clearly the sliver in waxing. The two signs of the barley in the bowl--a parchable bundle of grain, enough for a sheaf--AND the sighting of the New Moon.

-aside- Joshua and Caleb brought back a good report with proof from a land flowing with milk and honey--which brings to mind a place full of herbivores eating lots of flowering plants full of bees and bugs, etc. It was NOT a desert; somehow, today it is that way, probably because of the many pole-shifts throughout this planet's history... perhaps, things ripened earlier or later if there were a pole shift to make a desert flourish...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:18 pm 
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Toshav wrote:

Perhaps only Yah's wild barley is ready (Yah's wild branch!), and the cultivated barley (Yah's cultivated branches) are NOT ready, but will be soon.

Are we wild barley?


Nice.

:s_thumbsup

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:48 pm 
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Well, I'm glad passover wasn't today. I've been sick and couldn't prepare my house. Turns out I have severe allergies to all the flowering trees we have this year. Went to the ER this afternoon, because I couldn't breath anymore, my airway was shutting down. Had to have breathing treatments haven't slept in days for more than a few minutes at a time.

This has all been excellent reading and debating. Thank you all for that.


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