Joyfully Growing in Grace and Torah

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:39 pm 
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"And I saw people learning Torah. And I saw the light there and it was something really huge."



The entrance to Gan Eden:

"Really beautiful. The light I saw in the beginning was nothing compared to that light. Nothing. Nothing at all. This was something good. That was the "Lower Gan Eden." Just think - there were higher levels than that."

"Can you describe what it was like?"

"It's not possible. It's something good, something beautiful, a feeling you just want to stay there with them and learn Torah with them. Just to stay there in that place and not leave it."

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:55 pm 
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Not verifying the validity of this, btw. There's a lot of going back and forth about its legitimacy. Just thought I'd post it FYI.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:12 am 
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I don't doubt the sincerity of the young man, at all. I believe him to be absolutely truthful in what he is saying; ie he's not being dishonest or deceptive.

Most of us can relate to at least some of what he says, for example we've all experienced that sense of 'knowing' without being told something...especially in dream states. He does an awesome job (IMHO) of describing how we are examined before Yah...Who sees all we've ever done, said or even thought. He does a great job of trying to teach that our hearts before Yah counts for much more than religious traditions ...ie when he says it's not who's wearing a kipa that is allowed to pass into the place of salvation, but he who has a pure heart before Yah...his aroma, and how a person's faith/trust leads him in fear..not of punishment, but fearing to transgress.

There was much that this young man said that is soooo very true. The Rabbi said he's not a Y'shiva student so much of what Natan said was definitely wisdom beyond his years.

Now, he did speak of Messiah..someone who is alive NOW...not someone who is dead. What an interesting conundrum for him because Messiah IS alive NOW..he has flesh and bone (sans blood) and his revealing will be a HUGE surprise for many. It's someone everybody knows and of course we know what the prophecies in the word says about that! But he can't come right out and deny with his tongue...he can't say the Messiah is not Y'shuah although someone in the audience tries to imply it (oops...saw some pride among a few there).

It's interesting that he sees Gog as the US...whoodathunkit! Is there any scriptural support for that?

And then, take a look at what just happened in Paris...a definite tipping point for the world. A place of no armed public, without borders, who's taken in a ton of refugees, a place attacked by Isis for no good reason that we are aware of. Russia has been ''nuclear rocket rattling" (as opposed to saber rattling) and has taken steps to remove their people from different areas. So the discription of war that the kid gives...a tipping point, a knowing...the video made before the Paris attacks...makes me say...'hummmmmm'. But, we'll have to wait and see on that.

He talks about different rooms and levels...Y'shuah said there are many mansions and he prepares just the right place for a person. A similarity there.

One thing that struck me about this NDE as with others, is that it's tailored to that particular religious belief system. When xians have them, it's from a xian perspective, when Jews have them, it's from a jew's perspective. I'm sure that when NDE's happen to others, it's from their cultural/religious perspective.

A dyed in the wool xian might see a room full of people studying 1st Corinthians and munching on pork chops while a Jew is going to see Torah study and Tzit-Tzit. The Jew is going to see the great Rabbi's while the xian is going to see Jezeus. The Indian is going to see Hari Kristna and the American Indian will see the Thunderbird or a white buffalo or something. If Chyenne-Arapaho it would be a giant peyote button talking to him....which says to me that some of what counts as a NDE is purely from the mind of the person experiencing the NDE.

Just some random thoughts. Gotta get ready to face the day...Blessings all, and thanks Toshav for the video. The young man so reminded me of one of my grandsons in so many ways!

It's one that I will ponder and hope to see some good discussion on!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:03 pm 
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Toshav wrote:



"And I saw people learning Torah. And I saw the light there and it was something really huge."



The entrance to Gan Eden:

"Really beautiful. The light I saw in the beginning was nothing compared to that light. Nothing. Nothing at all. This was something good. That was the "Lower Gan Eden." Just think - there were higher levels than that."

"Can you describe what it was like?"

"It's not possible. It's something good, something beautiful, a feeling you just want to stay there with them and learn Torah with them. Just to stay there in that place and not leave it."


Pretty badass. Reminds me of Enoch's and my own experiences...

:good:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:08 pm 
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Toshav wrote:
Not verifying the validity of this, btw. There's a lot of going back and forth about its legitimacy. Just thought I'd post it FYI.


The young man's countenance represents a witness's account to me, despite the timely adaptation of his story after the fact... I remember my dreams at his age having the same kind of validity...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:

One thing that struck me about this NDE as with others, is that it's tailored to that particular religious belief system.


:s_yes

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:42 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Toshav wrote:
Not verifying the validity of this, btw. There's a lot of going back and forth about its legitimacy. Just thought I'd post it FYI.


The young man's countenance represents a witness's account to me, despite the timely adaptation of his story after the fact... I remember my dreams at his age having the same kind of validity...



To be honest, his testimony made an impression on me. We do have to be wary of deceptions by the enemy, who can be persuasive, but I believe he is sincere and I couldn't help but think truth was being revealed.

It did strike me as well his experience was within a cultural context: ie: the end of days was shown from what would happen in Jerusalem, and didn't really give details on what was happening in the rest of the world. There was no mention of the mark of the beast, but did talk about the two witnesses, probably because they will be in Jerusalem at this time.

Also, it also occurred to me the experience showed events that may not be concurrent. Just like Revelation, we don't always know the span of time between each event, although we may know how long the events themselves may last. For example he said the IDF would fall in two days and more than a few million will die within a two-week period, but we don't know if these events overlap or how much time is between them.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:47 pm 
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I was impressed as well, and felt that truth was being revealed also. But I was also trying to be objective.

I DO know of one NDE that was for real. It occured in a hospital where a woman was having heart failure and I was aware even THEN that something was happening with her. She was unconscious for a few days after the event, but was alive because the doc was able to implant a temporary pacemaker. I was present throughout her arrival, the procedures that were performed on her, and I 'specialed' her in the coronary care unit for several days after.

I was praying for her when in my spirit, I felt that I could 'see' Messiah standing by her bed near her head. He touched her and smiled. He turned and looked at me, and smiled. It was a very strange experience, and it's hard to describe as I didn't see this with my eyes and yet I could 'see'.

Shortly after, she woke up and when she did, she told me of what occured in the ER, the pacemaker placement, everything that was said and done around her, AND of Messiah standing by her bed healing her!! I can't tell you how exciting that was and I encouraged her to speak to her doctor. She did and he was amazed and told her, I don't know how you could know all of that because you were, for all intents and purposes, DEAD.

So, she and I were witnesses as to what occured. She healed fully without need of subsequent treatment or medications for her heart, and in a very short amount of time for that period of time..early '80's! Only 2 weeks in the hospital, and no after effects. Her docs and family were amazed.

But there were no stories of 'the light' or tunnels, or future prophecies...just the love and healing of Messiah, his mercy and compassion. That was enough. And really, it still is! He heals our bodies, but he heals our sick spirits.

I'm glad you brought up this topic Toshav...It's needed in my life at the moment. I needed the reminder of his mercy and his healing as well as the judgment to come, and even then it seems that judgment is tempered by mercy.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:33 pm 
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Toshav wrote:
Texas Jon wrote:
Toshav wrote:
Not verifying the validity of this, btw. There's a lot of going back and forth about its legitimacy. Just thought I'd post it FYI.


The young man's countenance represents a witness's account to me, despite the timely adaptation of his story after the fact... I remember my dreams at his age having the same kind of validity...



To be honest, his testimony made an impression on me. We do have to be wary of deceptions by the enemy, who can be persuasive, but I believe he is sincere and I couldn't help but think truth was being revealed.

It did strike me as well his experience was within a cultural context: ie: the end of days was shown from what would happen in Jerusalem, and didn't really give details on what was happening in the rest of the world. There was no mention of the mark of the beast, but did talk about the two witnesses, probably because they will be in Jerusalem at this time.

Also, it also occurred to me the experience showed events that may not be concurrent. Just like Revelation, we don't always know the span of time between each event, although we may know how long the events themselves may last. For example he said the IDF would fall in two days and more than a few million will die within a two-week period, but we don't know if these events overlap or how much time is between them.


All throughout the text we are told to test and prove all things against Torah, for the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet, and the spirit must be tested of what sort he is based upon the Word. I do not see any breach of spirit against Torah here, fantastical as the boy's testimony may seem...

Even David said, "Search me, O Yah, and KNOW my heart. Try me and KNOW my thoughts, and see if there be any wicked way in me..." So powerful...

Maybe I'd get kicked out of their fellowship for being a rabble-rousing red neck, but I would love to hang out with them fellas and chew the cud for awhile. The boy seems like a cool kid to hang with and talk to...

Brethren, I can't wait for the Two Sticks to join...

:rose:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:00 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
All throughout the text we are told to test and prove all things against Torah, for the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet, and the spirit must be tested of what sort he is based upon the Word. I do not see any breach of spirit against Torah here, fantastical as the boy's testimony may seem...



I, too, was searching for conflict with the Torah, and found none. If anyone reading this did find provable scriptural error, please present it.


One thing that really challenged me, however, was the description of Gehenom. The boy clearly described a type of hell, fire and brimstone-like. Whether it was eternal torment, I'm not sure, but it did seem like conscious torment. Yahushua said both body and soul are destroyed in Gehenna. I recognize there are different places after life, though (Abraham's bosom, for example).

I have lately been of the opinion this time after death, separated from Yah, is where their worm do not die, not necessarily continual eternal torment as taught in many mainstream churches. But when does this happen? Before Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire?

I really need to study up on the differences between the terms Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, etc. I believe Sheol (Heb. grave) and Hades (Gr.) are the same, right? Gehenna was an actually place known for continuous burning fires, garbage disposal, a place for cremation. Was it a metaphor for a place beyond the grave?

Eye-yi-eye! :wacko:

If anyone can help me understand this, please start a thread so we can discuss it.

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-- Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Pslam 119:11 --


Last edited by Toshav on Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:03 am 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Maybe I'd get kicked out of their fellowship for being a rabble-rousing red neck, but I would love to hang out with them fellas and chew the cud for awhile. The boy seems like a cool kid to hang with and talk to...

Brethren, I can't wait for the Two Sticks to join...

:rose:



I thought the same. :s_thumbsup

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:53 am 
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Toshav wrote:
Texas Jon wrote:
All throughout the text we are told to test and prove all things against Torah, for the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet, and the spirit must be tested of what sort he is based upon the Word. I do not see any breach of spirit against Torah here, fantastical as the boy's testimony may seem...



I, too, was searching for conflict with the Torah, and found none. If anyone reading this did find provable scriptural error, please present it.


One thing that really challenged me, however, was the description of Gehenom. The boy clearly described a type of hell, fire and brimstone-like. Whether it was eternal torment, I'm not sure, but it did seem like conscious torment. Yahushua said both body and soul are destroyed in Gehenna. I recognize there are different places after life, though (Abraham's bosom, for example).

I have lately been of the opinion this time after death, separated from Yah, is where their worm do not die, not necessarily continual eternal torment as taught in many mainstream churches. But when does this happen? Before Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire?

I really need to study up on the differences between the terms Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, etc. I believe Sheol (Heb. grave) and Hades (Gr.) are the same, right? Gehenna was an actually place known for continuous burning fires, garbage disposal, a place for cremation. Was it a metaphor for a place beyond the grave?

Eye-yi-eye! :wacko:

If anyone can help me understand this, please start a thread so we can discuss it.


I am a student of languages, symbols, metaphors, archetypes... and I see too many similarities in the ancient texts. I take every ancient text into account, not just the old Hebrew scrolls. What story we have today represents a mysterious journey of the research and wonder. I look at all the stories of old from every tribe and tongue as speaking of one story by many languages. The Bible that we have today is but a "canonized" composite library of books from the orthodoxy, with too many subtle hints in the English translation for it to be a complete fabrication.

Hades was the brother of Zeus, who crucified Prometheus for giving fire to mankind, and made him daily and forever suffer the torment of a buzzard eating his ever-regenerating liver... Hades is the god of the underworld, whose realm and metaphor represent darkness, evil, and melancholia. The fact that the Greek New Testament uses his name countless times to represent a place of sadness, torment, evil, and separation from the Creator signifies that it MUST NOT be the place where Torah says Rebekkah was gathered to her ancestors... the fact that Hades and Death are both cast into YHWH's fiery lake of brimstone (sulfur), which must smell horrendous as anyone can imagine, this must mean that Hades is not in good standing with the Mighty One. And I think, Death is Hades' brother, who is none other than Zeus, who is Satan...

In the Viking metaphors, Odin kicks Thor and his brothers out of Valhalla, and they conquer the earth until Ragnarok, in which they had to fight to the death, and then get completely washed away by a deluge. I think this is the old Celtic version of Genesis 6-7, the days of giants and monsters, the nephilim. Of interest within the Viking myths is Loki, the trickster god of the underworld, whose daughter, Hel, is a half-corpse-half-beautiful goddess of the damned. Our English translation for Hades as Hell is not a coincidence, for both Loki in the Norse and Hades in the Greek are the gods of the dark realm below, even as "the rich man, being in torments, looked UP" and cried beyond the distant void between Abraham and Lazarus, who must have been above the rich man, and I believe that this must be Paradise, or, as both the Viking and their Japhetic brothers, the Oglala Lakota, call "the happy hunting ground" dream land state of the dead until Resurrection, when it becomes reality...

...

:popcorn:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:45 pm 
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Very interesting TJ!

So much of what Simone was posting opened my eyes to such possibilities..gosh I wish she was still here. I miss her.

But yes, I see what you're saying. That thread exists.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:13 am 
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Indeed, Judith.

Beowulf flashes his sword towards heaven and declares, "I defy you Fates (Weirds)," who were the goddesses that determined the destinies of men, the same for the Weirds (pronounced "way-wards") who make their appearance over and over to Macbeth--who, unlike Beowulf, became a cursed man for listening and believing in their prophesies... and again, these goddesses find their equivalent in the old, Viking / Norse mythology of the Valkyrie, who again determine the destinies of men on the battle field. The Greek version has three sisters: one who gathers flax from the field, the second who makes chord from the flax on her spinning wheel, and the third to take the chord and extend it to every man born--it is the cutting of the chord that determines the death of the person, which interestingly enough, appears in Ecclesiastes 12:6, "the silver chord be cut...and the spirit ascends back to the God who gave it."

Of course, I am just speculating here, but could the "Fates" of the Greeks, the "Weirds" of the Anglo-Saxons, and the "Valkyrie" to the Norse be none other than the female deities who appear in Zechariah 5, one in the basket and the other two "with wind in their WINGS?"

:angelwings:

:popcorn:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:21 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
I am a student of languages, symbols, metaphors, archetypes... and I see too many similarities in the ancient texts. I take every ancient text into account, not just the old Hebrew scrolls. What story we have today represents a mysterious journey of the research and wonder. I look at all the stories of old from every tribe and tongue as speaking of one story by many languages. The Bible that we have today is but a "canonized" composite library of books from the orthodoxy, with too many subtle hints in the English translation for it to be a complete fabrication.

Hades was the brother of Zeus, who crucified Prometheus for giving fire to mankind, and made him daily and forever suffer the torment of a buzzard eating his ever-regenerating liver... Hades is the god of the underworld, whose realm and metaphor represent darkness, evil, and melancholia. The fact that the Greek New Testament uses his name countless times to represent a place of sadness, torment, evil, and separation from the Creator signifies that it MUST NOT be the place where Torah says Rebekkah was gathered to her ancestors... the fact that Hades and Death are both cast into YHWH's fiery lake of brimstone (sulfur), which must smell horrendous as anyone can imagine, this must mean that Hades is not in good standing with the Mighty One. And I think, Death is Hades' brother, who is none other than Zeus, who is Satan...

In the Viking metaphors, Odin kicks Thor and his brothers out of Valhalla, and they conquer the earth until Ragnarok, in which they had to fight to the death, and then get completely washed away by a deluge. I think this is the old Celtic version of Genesis 6-7, the days of giants and monsters, the nephilim. Of interest within the Viking myths is Loki, the trickster god of the underworld, whose daughter, Hel, is a half-corpse-half-beautiful goddess of the damned. Our English translation for Hades as Hell is not a coincidence, for both Loki in the Norse and Hades in the Greek are the gods of the dark realm below, even as "the rich man, being in torments, looked UP" and cried beyond the distant void between Abraham and Lazarus, who must have been above the rich man, and I believe that this must be Paradise, or, as both the Viking and their Japhetic brothers, the Oglala Lakota, call "the happy hunting ground" dream land state of the dead until Resurrection, when it becomes reality...

...

:popcorn:



Thank you, TJ. I appreciate your answer. I'd be really interested to see what the Hebrew Matthew says as well, and then maybe we'd have a better understanding of what Yahushua was saying.


Need to check the AENT here as well…

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:54 am 
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God told Tracy Morgan his room was not ready...

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/s/tracy-mo ... 47452.html

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:21 am 
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Morgan and Farrakhan went up there in their mothership, and Morgan was probably sent back to warn white Americans of their racism:

https://youtu.be/dtiVP-E2eFI

;)

On the other hand, I wonder which god Morgan must have talked to...


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