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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:34 pm 
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I will lay it out there. I need advise. I also want to discuss the conditions of the Marriage covenant that is not only made with one's spouse but when a person gets married they are also making a covenant with YHVH.

I realize it takes two to make or break a marriage but what if one person in the marriage turns mean and impossible to live with in that they are even hindering their spouses walk with Christ?

Does it seem like a Godly commitment if a person stays in a marriage for the sole purpose of keeping their covenant with YHVH even though they are miserable? If their spouse has basically quit being a loving spouse and caused a lot of emotional trauma out of meanness, and the suffering spouse finally says enough is enough, "I want a divorce". Who is initially breaking the covenant; the one who was mean or the one who wants the divorce?

What does for better or worst actually mean? I know it can be applied to the couple going through rough times such as financial problems, natural disasters or whatever. Does it mean sticking with a spouse that has quit being loving and quit being like a partner in life?

I really could use some advise. I am not looking for a justification for divorce. I know divorce is wrong. Even YHVH divorced though when Israel turned from Him due to their unfaithfulness. Could unfaithfulness be applied when a partner no longer puts anything good into the relationship?

I have started reading this article about conditional covenants. http://www.divorcehope.com/marriagevowscovenantsagreements.htm

I have known some of you through the internet for years. You know the Bible better than most and many have been through divorce. I don't know of anyone better to turn to for advise.

Maybe this thread can help others whom are struggling with marriage too.

I am open to going into further detail. There is a lot to this. I know many aspects are personal but I really don't know where to turn. :s_cry

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:39 pm 
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I doubt I could actually divorce my spouse but up until now he knows that my feelings are strong about marriage and that I feel that by ending the marriage I would be breaking a covenant with YHVH. That is what I have always been taught. I am starting to rethink some of the philosophies that I have been taught concerning divorce, not that I plan on getting one but maybe if I do find that the marriage covenant is conditional and that condition has already been broken; I can let him know that I do not have to put up with his crap. That only by treating me like he should will he be able to keep me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:09 pm 
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Has he always been mean and aloof? or did he just turn into a sonofabitch and get mean all of a sudden? At least set some ground rules of respect in your home between you two. Maybe stay away from each other for awhile. If you put distance between yourselves, perhaps you may come back together in a different aspect.

Hope that helps. :rose:

My wife and I have definitely had our ups and downs, times of sweet and times of mean, and we are still kicking it nearly 20 years. Respect is for sure the rule of our house, both ways...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:11 pm 
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I just want to say "I hear ya'' VW. BTDT.

I've had questions along those lines, too.

One of the things that struck me is the idea of faithfulness. What exactly IS that? It's NOT just sexual, is what I learned. Can a person ''whore'' after oneself? I've come to the conclusion that yes, they can. They can turn their hearts from their partner, become self absorbed, and fail in ALL marital 'duties'. And, they can do it for absolutely years.

One thing that wandered across my path throughout those years was a concept of ''putting away'' one's spouse, but not divorcing him/her. There were things I'd come across over the internet which suggested that this is something Y'shuah addressed in the topic of divorce, but that our traditional english translations loose things in translation.

A person can withdraw from the marriage to the point where it forces the other, out and that this is what causes a person (humanly) to finally reach that point where if they turn to someone else, they are being essentially forced to commit adultery. It's not that people are committing adultry if they remarry after a divorce, is how this article explained it.

The word warns us as parents not to frustrate our kids. I think this is just a fancy way of calling out abuse..pushing a person mentally and emotionally (and spiritually) beyond what's humanly reasonable, and they end up reacting.

We all know that abuse of one kind or another happens in marriages too. It can be verbal, emotional, physical, spiritual, or any combination of all /any of it.

I personally am a pretty patient person and I tolerated and tried to my whit's end to fix a marriage by myself for 20 years or more. I lost count. It's impossible to do so without the cooperation of the partner. I eventually left the marriage, and then, 4 years later, my spouse passed away. I did not divorce although I DID acquire the paperwork to do so! I just never filled it out, or filed it.

The only thing he didn't quit doing was feeding and housing me. But he did deny me spending money for even my basic needs (other than food). he'd have hundreds of dollars in his wallet, the bills all paid, but he was ''broke''. Nope, I couldn't have $20 for shoes, or a doctor's visit. HE was medically insured, but I wasn't. I suffer from those long term health setbacks to this day, and am disabled as a result of them.

The sin of Israel against Yah essentially was selfism and neglect of the spouse/spousal agreement. I tend to try and boil things down to their basic componants (KISS principle) to the point where Yah had to let go. What choice did he have, really? Who wants to force someone to do stuff their heart just isn't into at all? I don't. I don't want a partner who doesn't want me! It's hurtful!

And when you toss away a good partner, you toss away all the goods that come with that partner..ie blessings become curses.

I can't tell you what to do...and I know you don't expect that...but I just wanted to give you a hug, and say that you aren't alone. It's a lonely, hurtful place to be (am actually there now because I just ended a very young relationship with someone I was very attached to...because he became mean, though not physically)..so the emotions are there as well.

Regardless, one heals and life does go on! It can be refreshing not to have the stress that goes with it all, and to be able to attend to one's needs as one heals. And healing DOES happen!

Be in prayer, and go with Yah. He is kind and merciful, he understands since he's been there as well!

I think also, Paul addressed some of this when he spoke husbands and wives not being in bondage...that it's better to be at peace...You'll have to look it up so I don't pull it out of context. I am absolutely too lazy tonight to look up scriptures since my bible program on this pc is broken :(

A lot depends on your ultimate attitude...your heart...and his too. If you can set him down and not do that in hatefulness/anger/resentment etc, then both of you are in a better position to give things some time to think and reevaluate, pray, and have some discussion to see what to do next.

I agree that respectfulness is crucial, but in the absence of that what does one do? It becomes an abusive situation and my own personal attitude about that is that I'm not doing my loved one any kindness by allowing him to continue in that mode. I'm outta here until you can mind your manners type attitude. I may be totally wrong about all of this, and if so, I apologise, but I AM an abuse survivor..bad abuse..nearly died a time or two, or three or more....so I've learned what I've learned.

Hang in there kiddo.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:21 pm 
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Texas Jon wrote:
Has he always been mean and aloof? or did he just turn into a sonofabitch and get mean all of a sudden? At least set some ground rules of respect in your home between you two. Maybe stay away from each other for awhile. If you put distance between yourselves, perhaps you may come back together in a different aspect.

Hope that helps. :rose:

My wife and I have definitely had our ups and downs, times of sweet and times of mean, and we are still kicking it nearly 20 years. Respect is for sure the rule of our house, both ways...


He was wonderful (for the most part) for the 1st year of our marriage then things started slowly getting worst. Then my daughter, husband and kids moved up here last fall. He started being hateful to all of us.

Another important aspect is he has Asperger's, he also possibly is delusional or just a huge liar to impress people and make them think he is some sort of great man that God talks to. He has always told me and others about all these visions from Yeshua and such and talks to angels. He is very convincing. I and others believed him. I have caught him in so many lies that I do not trust any of that anymore. I use to believe him. I no longer do. Alan has always been a little odd. He has turned into a hateful grump who when coming into the house will holler at one of my grandkids "Get out of my way!" He told the kids recently, "Your Dad is a dead beat." Zach heard him and they got in a huge argument. Zach has a good paying job and helps with bills but won't help Alan with fire wood because Alan is so mean to him. Zach said he would buy a bunch of slab wood soon to help. Alan's best friend has been helping him like they have done for years. Last night Alan came in a little late for supper. Tricia and I were relaxing in the living room. 5 year old Preston came and asked his Mom if he could have 2nds. She said he could. He went to the table and asked, "Grandpa, can I have 2nds?" Alan yelled, NO!" It is constant stuff like that. Tricia and Zach are saving money to move out. We have been married for almost 5 years.

He is 20 years older than me. I understand that maybe the added people here has pushed him over the edge. He was a boyscout leader for many years. He was looking forward to having kids around to be a role model for (so he claimed at the time we discussed them moving up here. He never made any effort to be a grand father towards them and always just pointed out the negative in everyone around him (including friends) and never says anything nice to anyone. I am not exaggerating when I say he has turned into a total ass____. It isn't just because of them moving up here either. He was getting more and more like that before they came.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:38 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
I just want to say "I hear ya'' VW. BTDT.

I've had questions along those lines, too.

One of the things that struck me is the idea of faithfulness. What exactly IS that? It's NOT just sexual, is what I learned. Can a person ''whore'' after oneself? I've come to the conclusion that yes, they can. They can turn their hearts from their partner, become self absorbed, and fail in ALL marital 'duties'. And, they can do it for absolutely years.

One thing that wandered across my path throughout those years was a concept of ''putting away'' one's spouse, but not divorcing him/her. There were things I'd come across over the internet which suggested that this is something Y'shuah addressed in the topic of divorce, but that our traditional english translations loose things in translation.

A person can withdraw from the marriage to the point where it forces the other, out and that this is what causes a person (humanly) to finally reach that point where if they turn to someone else, they are being essentially forced to commit adultery. It's not that people are committing adultry if they remarry after a divorce, is how this article explained it.

The word warns us as parents not to frustrate our kids. I think this is just a fancy way of calling out abuse..pushing a person mentally and emotionally (and spiritually) beyond what's humanly reasonable, and they end up reacting.

We all know that abuse of one kind or another happens in marriages too. It can be verbal, emotional, physical, spiritual, or any combination of all /any of it.

I personally am a pretty patient person and I tolerated and tried to my whit's end to fix a marriage by myself for 20 years or more. I lost count. It's impossible to do so without the cooperation of the partner. I eventually left the marriage, and then, 4 years later, my spouse passed away. I did not divorce although I DID acquire the paperwork to do so! I just never filled it out, or filed it.

The only thing he didn't quit doing was feeding and housing me. But he did deny me spending money for even my basic needs (other than food). he'd have hundreds of dollars in his wallet, the bills all paid, but he was ''broke''. Nope, I couldn't have $20 for shoes, or a doctor's visit. HE was medically insured, but I wasn't. I suffer from those long term health setbacks to this day, and am disabled as a result of them.

The sin of Israel against Yah essentially was selfism and neglect of the spouse/spousal agreement. I tend to try and boil things down to their basic componants (KISS principle) to the point where Yah had to let go. What choice did he have, really? Who wants to force someone to do stuff their heart just isn't into at all? I don't. I don't want a partner who doesn't want me! It's hurtful!

And when you toss away a good partner, you toss away all the goods that come with that partner..ie blessings become curses.

I can't tell you what to do...and I know you don't expect that...but I just wanted to give you a hug, and say that you aren't alone. It's a lonely, hurtful place to be (am actually there now because I just ended a very young relationship with someone I was very attached to...because he became mean, though not physically)..so the emotions are there as well.

Regardless, one heals and life does go on! It can be refreshing not to have the stress that goes with it all, and to be able to attend to one's needs as one heals. And healing DOES happen!

Be in prayer, and go with Yah. He is kind and merciful, he understands since he's been there as well!

I think also, Paul addressed some of this when he spoke husbands and wives not being in bondage...that it's better to be at peace...You'll have to look it up so I don't pull it out of context. I am absolutely too lazy tonight to look up scriptures since my bible program on this pc is broken :(

A lot depends on your ultimate attitude...your heart...and his too. If you can set him down and not do that in hatefulness/anger/resentment etc, then both of you are in a better position to give things some time to think and reevaluate, pray, and have some discussion to see what to do next.

I agree that respectfulness is crucial, but in the absence of that what does one do? It becomes an abusive situation and my own personal attitude about that is that I'm not doing my loved one any kindness by allowing him to continue in that mode. I'm outta here until you can mind your manners type attitude. I may be totally wrong about all of this, and if so, I apologise, but I AM an abuse survivor..bad abuse..nearly died a time or two, or three or more....so I've learned what I've learned.

Hang in there kiddo.


Thank you for your reply. I am praying and having a wait and see attitude. I have separated myself from him in that we have a sort of guest house building. I sleep in it because I have sleep apnea and have to be on a cpap at night and in the cabin between phones ringing, dogs barking and such I can't get any sleep. He was ok with that. but I would hang out with him and share Youtube videos, watch the news and such together. Lately, I quit doing that because he has been giving me the silent treatment. I am not even sure what I did. Forgive me for getting personal but our relationship is not sexual. That was agree before we wed. He can't and I don't want to. LOL We mainly had the same spiritual views and knowledge of endtime prophecy happening and such. We were lonely and thought we could be partners in life he promise me the world, he helped me build a chicken coop and chicken yard or rather I helped him. Then then a couple of years later he closed in an overhang area on the guest house and made me a goat barn but a year later the stanchion is still not built. Zach helped me enlarge the goat barn and is fixen to build me a stanchion so I can trim my poor goats hooves. I am not a slave driver. He was all on board w/ getting farm animals, then over time al he would do is lay in his room all day. I am the one who takes care of all the animals. He use to let the chickens out in the morning so I could sleep in. He doesn't do that anymore.

Dang! Sorry about the novel. I am mainly thinking out loud. There are so many thoughts swirling in my head.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:40 pm 
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Tricia thinks when they move things will get better.

IDK.

A person can change only so much. He is so far from the man I thought I was marrying that I just don't know.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:18 pm 
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Earlier Tricia and I were discussing how she and Zach are hoping to find a farm for rent. There is one place that even has a barn that they might be able to rent cheap. We talked about me going there with them. Zach agreed that is would be a lot of work on him to build a coup and stables, fences and such but he likes doing that kind of stuff.

I about made up my mind that I would like to do that and just stick around here till the animals had a place to move to but that depressed me so much. I seemed less depressing to just stick it out here. I have put my heart and soul into my life here. My life has been all about trying to follow the Spirit and feeling led to be a prepper (not for myself but other people are going to need help. Would I do all this word for all these years so I can survive the end times? No way. I am not particularly fond of gardening, canning or any of that stuff. I do it because I feel led to and if nothing else if you see disaster coming you try to prepare. If I was a loner, I would move down south and survive by my wits till the South is wiped out or something but I can't. I know what is coming. YHVH DID give ME visions of what is to come. Many years ago. I have been a prepper ever since. I was given it before the Y2K scare.
I know survialists say you wont be able to help others. That people will kill for provisions. IDK, but I do can baby food and stock bottles cloth diapers and such. In case of a starving mother and baby. Though recently I have been leaning towards the ark is going to have to shut it doors soon though.

I have tried to house homeless people who have come my way several times over the last few years (Alan was all for it). It was disastrous every time. Many people now days just want to take advantage of others.

I really have fought for my marriage for years. I am the one who always gets the communication going to try to end problems. Am I Holier than thou? No. I'm not always easy to live with. I can have a bad temper when angered. If I do cross the line though; I know it and do earnestly apologize when I cool off. I know full well that every person in this world has some kind of personality defect. I am no exception. I have worked very hard on it though and improved over the years.

I love him too. I don't want to hurt him.

When I thought about leaving I felt so defeated.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:33 pm 
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It is quite possible that I also have Asperger's.

So I guess my question now is; do you think (under Torah), would Yeshuah have a problem with me living in the guest house? LOL

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:38 pm 
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I love you guys so much. :friends:

I am looking forward to meeting ya'll in person one day; at Yeshua's marriage supper or in the New Kingdom.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:09 am 
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Vectorwoman wrote:
It is quite possible that I also have Asperger's.

So I guess my question now is; do you think (under Torah), would Yeshuah have a problem with me living in the guest house? LOL


Historicallly, men and women haven't always lived under the same roof at all times, nor have they even shared the same bedroom, much less the same bed lol! In history past, some of the patriarchs had more than one wife, and each had her own dwelling. Some had only one wife and they shared the same tent. Men were frequently off to war, or out in the fields for months tending the flock, or traveling for sustinance for all.

But going about one's daily business and honoring the marriage contract does count for something. Treating our brothers and sisters in Messiah with loving respect counts for something. Y'shuah said this is how the world knows that we are his...by how we treat one another. Our spouses are also our brothers and sisters in Messiah.

From what you've described so far, it does sound like having the additional family there is pushing the coping factor for your spouse, and he's reacting for whatever his reasons are. Is the Aspergers thing a suspicion on you guy's part, or is he medially diagnosed? Certain medical conditions do require adjusting traditions, for sure!

To ME, there is a difference between someone who has issues due to medical conditions compared to someone with poor morals/manners..ie compared to someone with a substance abuse issue which changes the brain intentionally along with the side effects, or someone who is purely selfish and lazy, a deliberate fake. However, either way, it's HARD trying to cope.

Is it possible that he's feeling left out now that there are others demanding your attention? That he's resentful? When things go from difficult to worse after a change in living conditions, something is stirring the pot. Maybe you need to get him off alone and give him some undivided time and see what can be worked out? Perhaps if he can be guaranteed a spot of his own, alone with your undivided attention he will begin to relax a bit? Even a couple of hours at the end of the day can make a world of difference!

Living with people, even people you love, is difficult at best, even when everybody gets along well. Add the coping issues associated with Aspergers by itself, and it's likely to explode into ugly.

You know, I'm so glad that you CAN come here and talk..and vent...It's important to be able to do that, and to be able to take the pressure of it off of your own kids. You guys however, ARE going to have to find a way to meet the children's needs and save them some grief. Talk to them about Aspergers, and give them a place to talk with y'll. How old are they? At any age, they can learn that your family member is ill, and they can learn responses that are kind and meaningful. The other adults in the home are going to have to be a shield of protection for them as opposed to letting grampa handle something he can't handle.

I'm chuckling a bit inwardly because your ''grump'' still sounds a lot like my late ''grump''. To this day, my grandkids love their 'papa' and don't seem to recall his nastiness toward them! And he WAS nasty! We just found ways so that he could be the good guy, and that's what the kids remember. They're adults now with fond memories...the point is, there IS hope!

The ego behind the story telling says he wants to be admired, respected, thought well of, and there are ways in which those things can become a reality. It's just going to take all of you as a family, with Yah's help, to make that happen. Whether or not YOU have any patience left to accomplish it is a whole nutha story lol!

yep, I hear you about the canning and planning...me too. Although I do love the gardening, but mine's pretty much taking a shabbat rest. I needed it this year. Yah made a way for me to have my canning needs met without having to can! I pretty much only need to provide myself some meat, and fresh dairy. My dau. helped me out with some of the meat. Off topic in a way, but I did get help from unexpected places. Yah is good even when I personally fail. Trust Yah to help you through this, but mostly, guard your heart, It's struggling. Let Yah fill you full of the spare love HE has. He's definitely exercising your patience muscle lol!

You work your butt off, that's obvious, so make sure you include some rest for YOURSELF! Even Y'shuah took time out to get away and revive his energy with Yah. He got away from people and rested from time to time. YOU need to do that too. Include some of your favorite fun activities as well. Get a change of scenery if necessary. Go off alone and let the other adults deal with stuff. It's only on your shoulders alone if you don't set down the burden and let others share it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:28 am 
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Vows are important before Yahuah. I really don't think people realize sometimes just how important these covenant vows are; especially in regards to marriage...the threefold cord. That being said, when one of the parties in covenant does not remain true to their vows, THEY have began to unravel that cord. That is serious business before Yahuah.

For Alan's sake, I pray he comes to this realization as you continue to try to keep things from unraveling further. May Yahuah strengthen you as He leads you, Anna. I am sorry to hear all this and will keep you in prayer (a vow also).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:47 am 
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Thank you. Can you direct me to a study on the threefold cord thing?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Location: On a mountain; at your side.
Ecc 4:9 Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their labour.
Ecc 4:10 For if they fall, one lifts his companion up. But woe to him who is alone when he falls, for he has no one to help him up.
Ecc 4:11 Also, if two lie down together, they keep warm; but how does one keep warm by himself?
Ecc 4:12 Although one might be overpowered, two withstand him. And a threefold cord is not readily broken.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:26 am 
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It is a grievous matter to divorce from one's spouse, for YHWH hates it; especially that of a man hating his wife and putting her away. In the very beginning before corruption came into being, he made them Ish and Isha and blessed them and called them Adam; he said "be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth." So it was his original plan that there be a man and woman with children that populate the earth. Nothing in his plan mentions cutting the the husband and wife apart from one another, but it was the serpent that came between the two... the enemy of the family is the devil, whose nature is against the instructions of YHWH; he is a liar, thief, adulterer, and murderer, from the beginning. I think it is safe to say, YHWH hates the devil, but I speculate. One thing I do know is that the scriptures say that YHWH, the Mighty One of Israel, hates divorce... (Malachi 2:6).

Yahshua says that Moses permitted divorce for the hardness of our hearts, but his will from the beginning never was so... he says "any man who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another commits adultery" (Matthew 19:8,9).

Now, getting away from each other, putting some space and distance between you two to cool off and calm down for awhile, to me, that's OK if you need to get the hell away from each other for a time. When you are around each other, it's the getting along, swallowing your pride, letting things go: that's the hard part... carrying your cross for each other, bearing each other's burdens... especially in the matter of what to speak and when, and what not to, and even HOW TO, that is key: "A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger" (Proverbs 15:1). I, myself, do not easily tolerate a disrespectful or negative person around me, but my honest action is to get way from that person, especially if I know their nature to be typically "toxic" and always a downer. I know that I can have a temper from time to time, and I do not like to be angry; so my coping mechanism is to avoid congregating and conversing with the people who I know will set me off... I have made some distance between a few folks in my blood family who were always mean and negative, and I have verbally indicated that to them in the past to no apologies or resolutions. The people who have given me grief in the past are, more often than not, churchies who cannot accept that my family and I have "come out of her." (sorry for the rant, but I provide that statement for context). I say these things so that you understand my particular situation in comparison to your own so that you would know where I'm honestly coming from. If I had to deal with a constant downer, then I would have to get away from him, is what I'm saying... I, myself, would never tolerate a disrespectful person...

Praying for you sis, and may YHWH lead you every step of the way...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:43 am 
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Vectorwoman wrote:
I love you guys so much. :friends:

I am looking forward to meeting ya'll in person one day; at Yeshua's marriage supper or in the New Kingdom.


May it EVER be so! :D :) :smile: :lol: :mrgreen: :biggrin: :drinks: :friends: :rose: :good: :rofl: :yahoo: :s_crazy


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:46 pm 
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Thanks for the advise guys.
I have decided that divorce is horrible. At this time I cannot do it.

Besides making a covenant I do remember in prayer promising YHVH that I would not divorce him accept for physical abuse or something like that. For now as aggravating and as hard as things can be; it isn't more than I can handle.

I have been trying to humble myself and step up to the plate and try to figure out how to be a better wife. Like it is written concerning the Law and taking the high road, There is no law against sticking it out.

My marriage is worth working on.

There has been a development that might make things better. Tricia and Zach found a place to rent. It is a nice one too. It is a large 4 bedroom house across the street from A large nice lake. The rent is unbelievably cheap too. They will be an easy 10 minute drive from here.

I told Yeshua that I laid this in His hands that He knew how to fix it better than me. I have also been concentrating hard on trying to follow the Spirit and do what I think Yeshua would want me to do at the moment.

It is very difficult to do that because this all while dealing with hurt feeling on both sides.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:18 pm 
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:) I always knew you to be a trooper... May Grace and Peace abound in your home in the name of YHWH.

:rose:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:43 am 
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(((((((Back at ya sis!))))))


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:19 am 
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Location: On a mountain; at your side.
So good to hear, Anna! Shabbat shalom all! Baruch Yahuah!

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Asher hayah v'hoveh v'yavo!


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