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 Post subject: Did y'all know that...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Hannukah was originally a Jewish SOLSTICE festival????

."The twenty-fifth of Kislew was accordingly a day sacred also to the heathen before it became a Jewish festival. According to Ewald ("Gesch. des Volkes Israel," 3d ed., iv. 407) and Wellhausen ("Israelitische und Jüdische Gesch." p. 210; comp. Paulus Cassel, "Weihnachten," pp. 57, 97, and p. lii., notes), *****it had been celebrated as the winter solstice feast by the Jewish people before it became a historical festival associated with the great Maccabean victory.*****

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/artic ... 3-hanukkah

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:41 pm 
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Didn't Y'shuah celebrate it?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:45 am 
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I recently was wondering if it had pagan roots. Thanks for the info.

I think we need to just stick to YHVH"s Holy days.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:52 am 
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Judith1 wrote:
Didn't Y'shuah celebrate it?


No record that He did.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:39 am 
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Vectorwoman wrote:
I think we need to just stick to YHVH"s Holy days.


I agree; solid ground....no adding, no taking away.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:37 pm 
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temu wrote:
Judith1 wrote:
Didn't Y'shuah celebrate it?


No record that He did.


Ok, I thought somewhere along the line that there was.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:12 pm 
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John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. John 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

Y'shuah was there at the temple during the feast of the dedication..He managed to p-off the 'popes'.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:30 pm 
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Judith1 wrote:
John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. John 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

Y'shuah was there at the temple during the feast of the dedication..He managed to p-off the 'popes'.
:smile:


Yes...many try to force-fit this as saying He was celebrating this event...hmmm...

Joh 10:31 Again the Yehuḏim picked up stones to stone Him.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Yahshua opened the eyes of the blind man while declaring himself the light of the world. He also called himself the good shepherd and the Son of Yah, saying, "I said in your Law: ye are gods," for which they picked up stones to kill him, all in the Temple on the Feast of Dedication.

Not to mention that he presents himself to John as the Menorah in Rev. 1... :s_tongue

As for me and my house, we are in the sixth night of this badass feast that Terry doesn't like. On the previous five nights, at the lighting of the candles, my family and I called upon his precious name and dedicated ourselves, our temples to him, the Tree of Life, the burning olive oil, the gold of YHWH. :D

Don't hide your light under a basket. Light it and put it on the table for all the world to see. And let it shine before men that they see your good works and glorify the Father in heaven!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Love you my Tejas brother, but I can't roll with ya' on this one...

jewishencyclopedia.com..."it had been celebrated as the winter solstice feast by the Jewish people before it became a historical festival associated with the great Maccabean victory."

Along with this ‘former’ solstice festival, we get a new NINE branch ‘menorah’ (hannukiah) and some lies about an oil ‘miracle’? Lying traditions???

Mar 7:13 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such traditions you do.”

Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it1, so as to guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim which I am commanding you.

Deu 12:32 “All the words I am commanding you, guard to do it – do not add to it nor take away from it.

Lev 23:2 “Speak to the children of Yisra’ĕl, and say to them, ‘The appointed times of יהוה, which you are to proclaim as set-apart gatherings, My appointed times, are these…” Hmmm…no hannukah listed.

Joh 10:22-31 At that time the Hanukkah came to be in Yerushalayim, and it was winter. And יהושע was walking in the Set-apart Place, in the porch of Shelomoh. So the Yehuḏim surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in suspense? If You are the Messiah, say to us plainly.” יהושע answered them, “I have told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s Name, they bear witness concerning Me. “But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. “And I give them everlasting life, and they shall by no means ever perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. And no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. “I and My Father are one.” Again the Yehuḏim picked up stones to stone Him.

Let’s recap---Messiah at the festival…surrounded by the unbelieving Yehudim, Messiah tells them plainly they are not His sheep, then the Yehudim pick up rocks to stone Him…anyone still want to tell me He ‘celebrated’ this festival?

Gosh, I know it may have been tough for some to lose the ‘x-mass’ tradition to the truth, but so many be like “nooo…you ain’t getting this one too….!”

:dirol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:06 pm 
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At this point in time, I'm open minded about this topic. I HAVE wondered in the past about Hanukah not being listed among Yah's holy days and have thought it might be a 'subistitute' for xmas, and I'm definitely NOT supportive of xmas. I've been confused about all the temple dedications also. And really, I've even wondered if the second temple was even truly kosher, because neither the tablets nor the spirit of Yah inhabited it.

Yet, Rosh Ha Kodesh chooses to inhabit man rather than buildings which makes the buildings themselves, pretty much an idol of its own.

On the other hand, TJ gets the spirit of the day in the sense of dedicating the temple of one's flesh to Yah, but then there are other holy days and ceremonies set aside for that, as well.

So, with that in mind, I am 'open' regarding this season.

It was obvious to me at the time that I posted the scripture that it only says Y'shuah was PRESENT at the temple, and that he was approached on that occaision by those who wanted to stone him. I posted that scripture only to show that he was present, and his presence begs the question 'why was he there?' We don't hear from HIM regarding the day or the celebration specifically.

The absence of the 9 stick Menorah is obvious throughout scripture whereever the presence of Yah is, including Revelation. Only the 7 light Menorah seems to hold significance through scripture.

A person can go back and forth on this one, pro or con and so it seems that appealing to Yah to reveal truth about it is required for conviction I think. I certainly experienced that with regard to xmas. The last two years I've had doubts and have not lit the menorah, and I find myself having to rededicate myself on a daily basis anyway as life presents it's interesting twists and turns.

I do however enjoy latkies and jelly doughnuts as well as peanut brittle lol! Unfortunately, most of the stores rarely carry raw spanish peanuts year round so peanut brittle becomes a winter treat.

Refinement is a constant process and it's not always easy to be open to what the spirit is saying to the assemblies. But neither am I going to reject all things Jewish simply because they are Jewish. I do have a lot of respect for tradition because they DO have a way of taking hold of a person which is why this group of people managed to retain their heritage despite all odds.

Traditions are things done in the flesh to puncutuate spiritual lessons, and when those traditions point back to Yah, they become something to hang on to. The two loaves at shabbat represent the manna in the desert which was collected 6 days a week, and they also point to the show bread in the temple, which points to Y'shuah being the bread of life because he is the living word. The candles representing the light in the temple with the showbread, the traditions of a typical Jewish household showing the temple of Yah, which exists in heaven.

I call them object lessons.

Those are my thots anyway.,


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:42 am 
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Judith1 wrote:


So, with that in mind, I am 'open' regarding this season.



That's why I made the post...so we can discuss and share thoughts.

Shalom, shalom!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:08 am 
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--I love you too, Terry--
You do not do Hanukkah, so you do not understand what it signifies, nor could you. You do not call yourself "Jewish" like I do. In fact, you carry over the same doctrines about the Jews that the JW's, SDA and COGIC represent, replacing the people of YHWH with another group, and you do not affiliate yourself with Judaism as I do. I am Jewish not only by ancestry, for it turns out that my mother's ancestors who came over here from Germany, the Shafers, were Jewish by blood and religion--but that is only a side point, for I recognize more so that I am Jewish by Messiah's blood; I am Jewish by the circumcision of my heart; I am Jewish because the middle wall of partition that was against me has been torn down; I am the wild branch engrafted into THEIR cultivated olive tree--HOW IRONIC! since the olive tree is represented by the menorah, which represents the man himself...

For me and my house, Hanukkah signifies our solidarity and allegiance with the Jewish people, the most set apart group/nation/tribe/blood/tongue/religion on earth. I stand with Judah against Rome, for salvation is of the Jews, and Hanukkah is COUNTER to Christmas, historically significant in the text (1 Maccabees) that the churchies cut out of the original KJV because it made their Zeus-Mithra-tree look bad. Hanukkah is the answer to Christ Mass, the cursed dead tree cut down, which represents the tree of knowledge of good and evil, versus the golden olive tree menorah which represents the Tree of Life; and you cannot deny the fact that it is mentioned in John for a purpose. Well, so far, you have denied that fact, but why when it is so plain as day?

When Messiah came to the Temple, he did everything associated with Light against darkness, he called himself the light of the world, and opened the eyes of the blind man. He said, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth [...] I am the door of the sheep [...] I am the good shepherd [...] I am the Son of God."

Let's recap: he called himself the light of the world, opened a blind dude's eyes, called himself the door, the good shepherd [I AM THE GUIDE]... and then most significantly, he withstood the Pharisees to their face, saying "I said in your law, 'ye are gods'...why do you take up stones to kill me if I tell you I am the Son of God?" He did all this, and then some, in the winter time, in the Temple, at Solomon's porch, during the Feast of Dedication (that's when they Jews light the menorah, by the way)... Apparently, there were other Jews there whom Messiah was teaching BESIDES the Pharisees who called him a demoniac. So in another words, there were different groups of Jewish people gathered at the Temple during Hanukkah to witness the event (the lighting of the menorah)--not just the Pharisees--and Yahshua was there also to tell everybody that he was the real Light that shines in the darkness, which is what Hanukkah signifies in the first place; so he was there at Hanukkah to present himself as the Tree of Life, the Menorah:

Revelation 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

This is very much like the prophet Zechariah's vision in chapter four: the menorah of refined, pure gold, forged in fire, beaten into the image of the Tree of Life (which is represented by the olive tree), filled with its golden oil, set ablaze by its golden flame... all of which is a metaphoric representation of the Man God himself...

And women everywhere have been lighting oil lamps and tapers every night for thousands upon thousands of years, and you have a problem with them doing it on a nine branch candlestick on a particular string of nights that commemorate Judah Maccabee's victory over the Greeks?

Proverbs 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.

Rock and roll...

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:32 am 
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I'm Ephraim...coming home in truth apart from tradition...provoking to jealousy by torah; the same thing Judah has cast aside for their rabbis words. Though engrafted, I take hold of the covenant they also cast aside...in Spirit without leaving truth at the door.

Here is a tasty Hanukah history lesson...


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