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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:10 am 
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Judith wrote:


Now that was an interesting read: http://www.inquisitr.com/1364461/israel ... n-mid-air/

Or it could be they just have really, crappy rockets....lol

But if some of these Hamas morons truly believe that God is protecting Israel and/or these are true miracles.....then why are you continuing to fire the rockets!?!?! :s_crazy :wacko:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:12 am 
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temu wrote:

It does make sense to have tunnels. However, when you place them in civilian occupied neighborhoods the civilian/innocent death toll is going to be impacted by it. Have you seen the way the IDF deals with it? Pretty cool, really...they 'knock' the building before obliterating it...giving the innocents...and even the terrorists, notice to get the hell out. 15 minutes later---BOOM!



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:43 am 
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Another perspective...If they weren't busy trying to annihilate Israel, they wouldn't need to hide like rats in a sewer.

OTOH, it does make sense to have a place to retreat to in the event of war/invasion, and in such a small area, tunnels make sense. BUT, those tunnels don't need to go all the way into Israeli cities and towns.

Each and every war Israel has been involved in, has been defensive, other than when they returned from Egypt with Moses. And even then, they already owned property there...deeded property even.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:33 pm 
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MountainRecluse wrote:
temu wrote:

It does make sense to have tunnels. However, when you place them in civilian occupied neighborhoods the civilian/innocent death toll is going to be impacted by it. Have you seen the way the IDF deals with it? Pretty cool, really...they 'knock' the building before obliterating it...giving the innocents...and even the terrorists, notice to get the hell out. 15 minutes later---BOOM!




They knew it was coming...they saw/heard the 'knock', then knew when to start filming.

Poof.

Wow.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Muslim perspective on how this Israel/Palestine deal played out:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Lots of lies involved in that video :(

Palestinians didn't exist prior to the turn of the century, so they didn't get driven off ''their'' land. They weren't a people, there was no nation. They weren't driven off the land, they chose to leave.

The video shows this tiny little country of Israel when in fact the Balfour declaration included a much larger area which also included Jordan. Israel was supposed to have a bigger piece than they ended up with.

When Israel settled in 1948, there were only a few nomadic tribes/arabs and there WERE Jews there. There has always been Jews there. It just wasn't a country.

The Palestinians piss and moan about their poverty, but the Jews walked into Israel with only skin on their bones. They had been stripped of everything they owned, including the muscle beneath the skin, yet they refused to remain in poverty. As soon as they got there, they were hit with mobs of fighting arabs. What did Israel own for weapons? Did they even have an army? In less than 20 years how could they have much of anything? Yet, they won those wars and battles.

Just because vicious Mohammedans conquered more land to use as a toilet, doesn't make them Palestinians any more than the British became native americans when they conquered THIS land. Just because you live in a garage, it doesn't make you a car or a lawnmower, and it doesn't make the garage yours. Especially if the garage is deeded to someone else.

Some of these Muslims (don't confuse Muslims with Palestinians even though Palestinians are Islamic) ARE Israel's brothers. And Esau was also Jacob's brother but the enmity between them has never been resolved. It only compounded the fiasco that already existed with Ishmael. Ishmael was given land, and so was Isaac. But they aren't content with what YHVH gave them, and they won't even acknowledge him! Not even now. They'd rather have the ''instead of''god.

The muslims paint this struggle as a palestinian struggle, when in fact all muslims simply want the Jews, dead. They don't care about the land any more than Esau cared about the birthright that he sold to his brother...who now nourishes the land.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:00 am 
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Knock, knock....


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:15 am 
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Judith wrote:
Lots of lies involved in that video :(

Palestinians didn't exist prior to the turn of the century, so they didn't get driven off ''their'' land. They weren't a people, there was no nation. They weren't driven off the land, they chose to leave.

The video shows this tiny little country of Israel when in fact the Balfour declaration included a much larger area which also included Jordan. Israel was supposed to have a bigger piece than they ended up with.

When Israel settled in 1948, there were only a few nomadic tribes/arabs and there WERE Jews there. There has always been Jews there. It just wasn't a country.

The Palestinians piss and moan about their poverty, but the Jews walked into Israel with only skin on their bones. They had been stripped of everything they owned, including the muscle beneath the skin, yet they refused to remain in poverty. As soon as they got there, they were hit with mobs of fighting arabs. What did Israel own for weapons? Did they even have an army? In less than 20 years how could they have much of anything? Yet, they won those wars and battles.

Just because vicious Mohammedans conquered more land to use as a toilet, doesn't make them Palestinians any more than the British became native americans when they conquered THIS land. Just because you live in a garage, it doesn't make you a car or a lawnmower, and it doesn't make the garage yours. Especially if the garage is deeded to someone else.

Some of these Muslims (don't confuse Muslims with Palestinians even though Palestinians are Islamic) ARE Israel's brothers. And Esau was also Jacob's brother but the enmity between them has never been resolved. It only compounded the fiasco that already existed with Ishmael. Ishmael was given land, and so was Isaac. But they aren't content with what YHVH gave them, and they won't even acknowledge him! Not even now. They'd rather have the ''instead of''god.

The muslims paint this struggle as a palestinian struggle, when in fact all muslims simply want the Jews, dead. They don't care about the land any more than Esau cared about the birthright that he sold to his brother...who now nourishes the land.


Very good points. I've read that before Jews started coming in the area it was all mostly barren desert to begin with. The things you hear and read about from Muslim sources paint this picture that the place was full of farms, houses, villages and towns, etc. So much conflicting information it's hard to get a proper perspective.

There are videos of "Israel's rogue settlers" who push themselves out beyond the borders and if they settle long enough they eventually get support from the Israeli government for utilities, schools, ect. But you look at the lands they are settling in and it's straight desert. There's literally nothing there. You couldn't even grow anything without some serious TLC of the ground there nor does it look like a very fertile area for letting animals graze. And no Palestinians/Arabs are doing anything with it....

Found this interesting video:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:21 pm 
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Thanks for the vid MR. Here is a link which describes a little bit about Mark Twain's book ''Innocents Abroad''.

http://zionismandisrael.wordpress.com/2 ... holy-land/

I'm inclined to consider him as a credible witness for his time (1867) because his writings were honest. Today, his writings are considered controversial in today's politically ''correct'' climate, but he WAS honest whether or not people today like what he had to say.

http://zionismandisrael.wordpress.com/2 ... holy-land/

There are links contained at the site to guide you to more of the chapters in that book.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:33 pm 
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So, I went back to read the book chapters which are available to read. God help me but I had to laugh! I absolutely LOVE his style. Here is a portion of chapter 45. I formatted the sentences to make them a bit easier to read.



Innocents Abroad:
Mark Twain visits Palestine
in 1867


Chapter 45

THE last twenty-four hours we staid in Damascus I lay prostrate with a violent attack of cholera, or cholera morbus, and therefore had a good chance and a good excuse to lie there on that wide divan and take an honest rest. I had nothing to do but listen to the pattering of the fountains and take medicine and throw it up again. It was dangerous recreation, but it was pleasanter than traveling in Syria.

I had plenty of snow from Mount Hermon, and as it would not stay on my stomach, there was nothing to interfere with my eating it -- there was always room for more. I enjoyed myself very well. Syrian travel has its interesting features, like travel in any other part of the world, and yet to break your leg or have the cholera adds a welcome variety to it.

We left Damascus at noon and rode across the plain a couple of hours, and then the party stopped a while in the shade of some fig-trees to give me a chance to rest. It was the hottest day we had seen yet -- the sun-flames shot down like the shafts of fire that stream out before a blow-pipe -- the rays seemed to fall in a steady deluge on the head and pass downward like rain from a roof. I imagined I could distinguish between the floods of rays -- I thought I could tell when each flood struck my head, when it reached my shoulders, and when the next one came. It was terrible.

All the desert glared so fiercely that my eyes were swimming in tears all the time. The boys had white umbrellas heavily lined with dark green. They were a priceless blessing. I thanked fortune that I had one, too, notwithstanding it was packed up with the baggage and was ten miles ahead.

It is madness to travel in Syria without an umbrella. They told me in Beirout (these people who always gorge you with advice) that it was madness to travel in Syria without an umbrella. It was on this account that I got one.

But, honestly, I think an umbrella is a nuisance any where when its business is to keep the sun off. No Arab wears a brim to his fez, or uses an umbrella, or any thing to shade his eyes or his face, and he always looks comfortable and proper in the sun.

But of all the ridiculous sights I ever have seen, our party of eight is the most so -- they do cut such an outlandish figure. They travel single file; they all wear the endless white rag of Constantinople wrapped round and round their hats and dangling down their backs; they all wear thick green spectacles, with side-glasses to them; they all hold white umbrellas, lined with green, over their heads; without exception their stirrups are too short -- they are the very worst gang of horsemen on earth, their animals to a horse trot fearfully hard -- and when they get strung out one after the other; glaring straight ahead and breathless; bouncing high and out of turn, all along the line; knees well up and stiff, elbows flapping like a rooster's that is going to crow, and the long file of umbrellas popping convulsively up and down -- when one sees this outrageous picture exposed to the light of day, he is amazed that the gods don't get out their thunderbolts and destroy them off the face of the earth! I do -- I wonder at it. I wouldn't let any such caravan go through a country of mine.

And when the sun drops below the horizon and the boys close their umbrellas and put them under their arms, it is only a variation of the picture, not a modification of its absurdity.

But may be you can not see the wild extravagance of my panorama. You could if you were here. Here, you feel all the time just as if you were living about the year 1200 before christ -- or back to the patriarchs -- or forward to the New Era.

The scenery of the Bible is about you -- the customs of the patriarchs are around you -- the same people, in the same flowing robes, and in sandals, cross your path -- the same long trains of stately camels go and come -- the same impressive religious solemnity and silence rest upon the desert and the mountains that were upon them in the remote ages of antiquity, and behold, intruding upon a scene like this, comes this fantastic mob of green-spectacled Yanks, with their flapping elbows and bobbing umbrellas! It is Daniel in the lion's den with a green cotton umbrella under his arm, all over again.

My umbrella is with the baggage, and so are my green spectacles -- and there they shall stay. I will not use them. I will show some respect for the eternal fitness of things. It will be bad enough to get sun-struck, without looking ridiculous into the bargain. If I fall, let me fall bearing about me the semblance of a christina, at least.

Three or four hours out from Damascus we passed the spot where Saul was so abruptly converted, and from this place we looked back over the scorching desert, and had our last glimpse of beautiful Damascus, decked in its robes of shining green.

After nightfall we reached our tents, just outside of the nasty Arab village of Jonesborough. Of course the real name of the place is El something or other, but the boys still refuse to recognize the Arab names or try to pronounce them. When I say that that village is of the usual style, I mean to insinuate that all Syrian villages within fifty miles of Damascus are alike -- so much alike that it would require more than human intelligence to tell wherein one differed from another.

A Syrian village is a hive of huts one story high (the height of a man,) and as square as a dry-goods box; it is mud-plastered all over, flat roof and all, and generally whitewashed after a fashion. The same roof often extends over half the town, covering many of the streets, which are generally about a yard wide. When you ride through one of these villages at noon-day, you first meet a melancholy dog, that looks up at you and silently begs that you won't run over him, but he does not offer to get out of the way; next you meet a young boy without any clothes on, and he holds out his hand and says "Bucksheesh!" -- he don't really expect a cent, but then he learned to say that before he learned to say mother, and now he can not break himself of it; next you meet a woman with a black veil drawn closely over her face, and her bust exposed; finally, you come to several sore-eyed children and children in all stages of mutilation and decay; and sitting humbly in the dust, and all fringed with filthy rags, is a poor devil whose arms and legs are gnarled and twisted like grape-vines.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:07 am 
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"The Gaza Bombardment - What You're Not Being Told"


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:40 am 
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Ron Paul on Hamas:



Impact on camera: Moment Israeli shell hits crowded Gaza square:




You know, I was just thinking about all of this and the comments by those who support Israel in this endeavor that bombing all these people is somehow eventually going to change the minds of Hamas. Or "break their will." Clearly, Hamas doesn't care how many lives are lost. They really don't care. And they never will. They are criminal, scum Muslim terrorists (with this I can agree with Israel). They live for this stuff. So why does Israel just keep doing this? They're taking the lives and limbs of all of these people really for nothing. Obviously, there is much more to this story than just "defending Israel." Reminds me of the excuses we made when going to "liberate" Iraq and Afghanistan. And did that change a thing? Of course not. But there had to be some ulterior motives....

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:30 pm 
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The MSM always forgets...ignores actually...the ''God Factor''.

Dividing the land, and dividing Jerusalem is NOT on God's agenda as acceptable. So, really, does it matter whether it's Hamas, or Muslim Brotherhood, or Turkish Muslims, or Quatari Muslims, or Arabic Muslims who are shelling Israel? The fact of the matter is, their goal is the elimination of God's people. They couldn't care less about the land itself as long as every Jew and every Christian on the face of the earth is dead. So, why are THEY bothering to shell Israel when in fact, they don't want the land? Because all they want to do is shed blood.

The map in the first video shows "Palestine'' but in fact, there was never a nation of Palestine. Jordan was given as the state for the Palestinians but the outline shows Israel, not the Palestinian state that was given to them. They don't want a land, or a state! So, it's really a straw man that the speaker is when he tries to show a land of Palestine as belonging to a Palestinian people, both of whom don't exist, while using boundaries belonging to Israel. Israel was intended to be much larger than it ended up being according to the Balfour thing. So, it was Israel who lost land, and they continue to do so. God will fix it when he comes back.

And he forgets, or perhaps never knew that the Pali's weren't tossed out. There weren't any there, then! Right of return? How can you return to a place you never were?

He says that Israel wanted Hamas to take over Gaza??? That doesn't sound right. It sounds like western thinking which is further clarified by the Ron Paul video.

But now that the US is turning it's back on Israel, wow...I really, really, never thought I'd see that in my lifetime. Now, I really do tremble for OUR nation :(

What the MSM says, and what people think about it is relevant in the light of what God thinks about it. He told us in advance what the outcome would be, and what he intends to do about it, and THAT is what counts.

Israel may have to be cleared of some unbelievers as it was when Joshua led the people in, but it will be cleared and cleansed for those who are God's people, and who will occupy the land.

National Israel today may not be the Israel God has in mind, but I'm sure some of them are.

Unfortunately, Israel is promoting some very immoral stuff these days which opens the door for their enemies to come in and do some stuff.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:40 am 
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Interesting article...

http://www.mediaroots.org/human-shield- ... r-decades/

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:10 pm 
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MountainRecluse wrote:


It begins: "It’s been three weeks since Israel launched its bombing campaign and subsequent invasion of the Gaza strip."

A better beginning: "It's been three weeks since Israel RESPONDED to rocket attacks across the country, after numerous broken ceasefires by Hamas, Gaza has been invaded to root out the terrorist tunnels, mostly built within civilian houses, used to store weapons and launch rocket attacks."

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:26 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRo89Qx3U-I


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:39 pm 
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And this one too. What's going on in Israel/Palestine is nothing more than an Iranian proxy war. It has nothing to do with anybody's ''right to return''. And even if the right to return was the case, Israel occupied the country for well over 1200 years before Islam was even invented.



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:59 am 
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temu wrote:
MountainRecluse wrote:


It begins: "It’s been three weeks since Israel launched its bombing campaign and subsequent invasion of the Gaza strip."

A better beginning: "It's been three weeks since Israel RESPONDED to rocket attacks across the country, after numerous broken ceasefires by Hamas, Gaza has been invaded to root out the terrorist tunnels, mostly built within civilian houses, used to store weapons and launch rocket attacks."



And Israel has rejected her fair share of ceasefire deals as well. Now they are bombing schools, power plants, leveling entire civilian areas, killing thousands,....c'mon. Bottom line, for me, is that I just don't support Israel or anything they choose to do. There is no Biblical command or even suggestion for me to do so. I don't want my tax dollars (I believe it's like 3 billion every year) going to support Israel. Let them support themselves. I don't want any part of it. I don't want my money going to help buy more ordinance for them to shell kids with no matter how radical their parents may be (or not at all) just as much as I don't want my money going to fund abortions here and worldwide (which I curiously also don't have a say in). And from a religious perspective, those in the higher echelons of the Israeli gov't are just as much anti-Christ as any Muslim extremists would be. That's one of the biggest issues for me in Hebrew roots circles is this absolute, blind support for anything Israel does and if you don't then you're somehow going against God Himself. Yeshua preached a coming Kingdom in which He will be the ruler over. Did not say anything about a man-made, resurrected political state of Israel that I must fund, support, and agree with in all issues.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:50 am 
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MountainRecluse wrote:
temu wrote:
MountainRecluse wrote:


It begins: "It’s been three weeks since Israel launched its bombing campaign and subsequent invasion of the Gaza strip."

A better beginning: "It's been three weeks since Israel RESPONDED to rocket attacks across the country, after numerous broken ceasefires by Hamas, Gaza has been invaded to root out the terrorist tunnels, mostly built within civilian houses, used to store weapons and launch rocket attacks."



And Israel has rejected her fair share of ceasefire deals as well. Now they are bombing schools, power plants, leveling entire civilian areas, killing thousands,....c'mon. Bottom line, for me, is that I just don't support Israel or anything they choose to do. There is no Biblical command or even suggestion for me to do so. I don't want my tax dollars (I believe it's like 3 billion every year) going to support Israel. Let them support themselves. I don't want any part of it. I don't want my money going to help buy more ordinance for them to shell kids with no matter how radical their parents may be (or not at all) just as much as I don't want my money going to fund abortions here and worldwide (which I curiously also don't have a say in). And from a religious perspective, those in the higher echelons of the Israeli gov't are just as much anti-Christ as any Muslim extremists would be. That's one of the biggest issues for me in Hebrew roots circles is this absolute, blind support for anything Israel does and if you don't then you're somehow going against God Himself. Yeshua preached a coming Kingdom in which He will be the ruler over. Did not say anything about a man-made, resurrected political state of Israel that I must fund, support, and agree with in all issues.


Bro, my point was that we can slant an argument either way...and the bias shows with the very first sentence.

Israel always gets center stage while 'Christians' are slaughtered in neighboring countries, hell, muslims too are getting their heads stuck on pikes. We live in the age of media bias. Simple as that.

My safe-ground is simply praying His will be done. I do know that islam/hamas is hell bent on destroying Israel; they do not care who dies in the process. They have proved that time and time again...it's like a poodle trying to attack a wolf and expect success.

:bomb:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:20 pm 
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temu wrote:

My safe-ground is simply praying His will be done....

:bomb:


Here, here... :s_yes


Here is another good video. This guy is an atheist but supports Israel and makes some great points:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:51 pm 
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I watched a movie on Monday titled "Israel Indivisable". It also had a subtitle but I can't recall what the rest was. It's available on facebook, but I never go there so I can't even tell you where. Perhaps a search will.

It was excellent as it highlighted the points of law with which Israel was made into a modern nation.

I was going to write it all out, but this is so much easier and allows for the process of discovery. The history of those events are indisputable, nor can they be slanted to meet anybodies agenda. PLEASE read the highlighted declarations contained within the article because therein lies the truth.

When all is said and done, Israel has NOT broken international laws, and has in fact been most lenient and generous in its chosen courses of action with regard to what's allowable under WORLD Law.

Israel has the legal RIGHT to boot the pali's out of gaza AND the west bank, and they've not done it. A nation does not have to relinquish lands confiscated in a war of defense. They get to keep it. That's world law. In fact, the crimes have been committed against Israel according to world law, yet Israel has used restraint and only enough force to protect the lives of the people there.

That's not a propaganda piece as you will see if you do your homework, and just simply dump the editorializing of the MSM.

here's the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_M ... instrument)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Here is a brief history of Israel which also has links, one of which led to the link I posted above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel


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