Joyfully Growing in Grace and Torah

Growing in Him
It is currently Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:49 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 681
Isaiah 9

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.




Verse 6 is very interesting. It is basically equating a child and son that will be BORN is God Himself. It says right there that this child will be called the "mighty God" and "Everlasting Father".......

What is Judaism's interpretation of this passage?

_________________
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work TORAHLESS-NESS.

~ Matthew 7:22-23


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:39 pm
Posts: 1370
Just looking at what the scrolls say, I think it is worded a bit different than this.

My concern for myself all along, has been - not what supports one agenda or view or another- so I don't care which is correct- only actually what really was. That is what I have wanted to know, this is what I requested to know. So the Essenne version looks a bit different and many consider Jesus to have been Essene right. Who knows how an even older version of this was worded.

This person brings to light a really good point- a Jewish prophet who stated a human being as God at this time- would have been stoned - not his words put into scripture.




http://www.arkcode.com/photo4_15.html


Thus, as is typical of Christian translations, the child born is portrayed as THE MIGHTY GOD (clearly blasphemy from the Jewish point of view), and someone who brings peace to the world (something that clearly has never arrived on our very troubled planet). So how could an accepted Jewish prophet write such words? Here again, the issue is not with the prophet, but on how his words were translated.

As I wrote above in conjunction with the name Immanuel, there is no state of being verb (is) in Hebrew. It must therefore be inserted by the translator, as appropriate. The Jewish translation of the name (in accordance with the Soncino book of Isaiah) is as follows: Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 681
Simone wrote:
Just looking at what the scrolls say, I think it is worded a bit different than this.

My concern for myself all along, has been - not what supports one agenda or view or another- so I don't care which is correct- only actually what really was. That is what I have wanted to know, this is what I requested to know. So the Essenne version looks a bit different and many consider Jesus to have been Essene right. Who knows how an even older version of this was worded.

This person brings to light a really good point- a Jewish prophet who stated a human being as God at this time- would have been stoned - not his words put into scripture.




http://www.arkcode.com/photo4_15.html


Thus, as is typical of Christian translations, the child born is portrayed as THE MIGHTY GOD (clearly blasphemy from the Jewish point of view), and someone who brings peace to the world (something that clearly has never arrived on our very troubled planet). So how could an accepted Jewish prophet write such words? Here again, the issue is not with the prophet, but on how his words were translated.

As I wrote above in conjunction with the name Immanuel, there is no state of being verb (is) in Hebrew. It must therefore be inserted by the translator, as appropriate. The Jewish translation of the name (in accordance with the Soncino book of Isaiah) is as follows: Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace."



Very interesting. Thanks for this information, Simone.

_________________
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work TORAHLESS-NESS.

~ Matthew 7:22-23


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:05 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:35 am
Posts: 1703
Location: On a mountain; at your side.
Simone wrote:
a Jewish prophet who stated a human being as God at this time- would have been stoned - not his words put into scripture.


Jewish tradition says he was sawn asunder.

Of interest...

Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

_________________
I give Christians wedgies

Asher hayah v'hoveh v'yavo!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:39 pm
Posts: 1370
And yet his words were recorded as scripture? Something doesn't jive..


You are welcome MR.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 9:10 am
Posts: 155
Hezekiah? please...


He must first come as redeemer..


Isaiah 54:5-8

Quote:
5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth. 6 The LORD will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit-- a wife who married young, only to be rejected," says your God. 7 "For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with deep compassion I will bring you back. 8 In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a moment, but with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you," says the LORD your Redeemer.


Even circumcised Israel couldn't redeem itself, they crossed the Jordan a blemished lamb. YWHY would have to redeem Israel Himself.

Quote:
4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come. 5 I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm worked salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me.


Now, why should the Most High have to redeem Israel? Why must He purchase man if He created them? And purchase them from whom?

Why are people not stoned today for not roasting a lamb on Passover? It is written in scripture.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 1229
Judaism reads the p'shat as relating to Hezekiah.

And yes, Hezekiah as a redeemer. Just as Moses was a redeemer. Just as Joseph was a redeemer. Etc, etc. A type and shadow of Mashaiach, if you please.

Of course, it throws a pipe wrench into missionary discusions, because Hezekiah was called "El Gibbor" and "Aviad," and he was not God.

It also throws a wrench into anti-missionary discussions, because Hezekiah was not named Immanuel (which they use to say why Yeshua is not Mashiach . . . because his name was Yeshua and not Immanuel).

_________________
Teshuvaami.com Forums


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 9:10 am
Posts: 155
One who leads a nation from captivity is not a redeemer. He’s just a leader who leads an enslaved nation from bondage. Moses lead the nation, he did not redeem them. Nor any other human. The lives of animals were given to redeem certain firstborn of livestock, the exchange must be an equal match.

A slave….all slaves, are owned; they must be purchased legally from the one who owns them, and purchased with a match that balances the scales of measure. In circumcised Israel’s case…the first born of YHWH, the firstborn physical nation (physically circumcised), the medium of exchange or currency that is weighed in the balance to ransom the firstborn son (to purchase their lives) was to give lives in exchange to purchase their freedom…by the lives of the firstborns of the Egyptians. Firstborn for firstborn is a equal match on the balance scales.

To purchase a spiritual nation, a physical exchange or to give the lives of a physical firstborn is not a match; a firstborn spiritual life is required to redeem a spiritual nation. To not see corruption is something out of reach for the flesh or for son’s of men, son’s of the first Adam. Spiritual redemption does not come by any man.

Psalm 49:

Quote:
7 none of them can by any means redeem his brother,
nor give to God a ransom for him:
8 (for the redemption of their soul is precious,
and it ceaseth for ever:)
9 that he should still live for ever,
and not see corruption.


However the body of the Son of Man must be purchased from the Adversary too, something that will either happen in 2014 or in 2017. Christ Jesus said in Exodus who would be taken, those He made reference to in Matthew 24. Find it, it's there.

Isaiah 43:3-4

Quote:
3 For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I give Egypt for your ransom,
Cush[a] and Seba in your stead.
4 Since you are precious and honored in my sight,
and because I love you,
I will again give people in exchange for you,
nations in exchange for your life.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Forum hosting by ProphpBB | Software by phpBB | Report Abuse | Privacy